complete newbie

[terrakota]

Hello there,

I'm a complete newbie in the cmak(tactics games) world, i'm trying the demo now.

I feel a little lost, not with the game mechanics i feel lost in tactics.

I almost play ww2 flight simulators so is my first experience with tactical games like this.

my question...

can someone give me a light from where to start with armor, infantry, etc; tactics?

maybe a good pdf or a good internet link where real world tactics can apply to this fantastic game.

I'm still playing the demo and i want to see if i can be any good with this kind of game to finally decide to buy it

thanks in advance and please excuce my poor english

[Lars]

Welcome aboard and start reading.

CMAK, CMBB, CMBO: Anthology of Useful Posts II

[MikeyD]

You can go to the 'Combat Mission:Barbarossa to Berlin' chat site and take a peek at the 'Frequently Asked Questions' thread at the top of the list.

Sure, its for the Russian Front game but most of the game mechanics/tactics stuff will apply to CMAK as well (except for factories and human wave assaults).

Cool member name!

[WindyCity]

If you end up purchasing the game/sim, make sure you get the Combat Mission BB strategy guide also. What is not covered in the strategy guide you can find on the forums.

PS: everyone here was a newbie at some point, so welcome!

[Salkin]

I can vouche for the strategy guide....it's great !

//Salkin

[Sitting Duck]

Originally posted by terrakota:

...please excuce my poor english

If you'd like to see some really poor english, have a glance at the latest Peng thread...

[Snarker]

Only five replies until you feed him to the sharks. You folks are slipping.

[terrakota]

thanks to all for you help

[LGMB]

Soldier,

Keep posting- things will look up!

[JasonC]

"play ww2 flight simulators so is my first experience with tactical games like this"

First tanks. They are the strongest individual units, able to hurt most things and only hurt themselves by special items meant to be good at it, and by each other.

Tanks are much more vulnerable from the sides than from the front. You don't need to get on their tail, but you do want to face them with while they aren't facing you. Teamwork is how you get that, same as air to air. He can't face you -and- your "wingman", if you split up and double back etc.

Some tanks have guns so powerful, they don't care whether they are shooting from the side or the front. Hammers. Some tanks are so thin, it doesn't matter how weak the gun is shooting at them or from what side. Eggshells. Others have front plates so thick, almost nothing can hurt them from the front, either at any range, or at the kinds of ranges one typically gets in practice. "Ubertanks". Almost nothing is strong enough to live when shot from the side by a serious gun.

The most important thing in these fights is just knowing what your own weapon can do and what the enemy weapon can do. Assymmetric matchups are the rule. One tank outranges the other from the front aspect - if it faces it, it wins. The other needs to get close enough for either to be able to kill, or even more common, just needs to get it from a side using teamwork or stealth.

("Stealth? With a tank? What's that?")

Tanks use cover by putting something between them and a dangerous enemy that completely blocks the line of sight. Park behind a building, for example. The terrain they are in doesn't help. The most important positions are ones where a short movement can drastically change how much of the map you can see, and which parts. Behind this crestline, can't see 50 meters ahead, ergo can't be seen or targeted by anything. Cross it, see 2 kilometers, hit whatever you like. You can change that in 20 seconds, and decide exactly when.

Tanks make a lesser use of cover by going "hull down" - meaning only their turret (and top of the hull, in practice) clears the ground they are looking over. Makes them harder to hit - the target is about half the usual size. Some types have weaker turret armor than hull armor, though, so it is not always an unmixed blessing. (Fewer hits, but more of them "go in").

When hits, tanks typically either can't be hurt at all by that type of weapon, at that range, hitting that part of the tank, or they are penetrated and knocked out completely on a single hit. There are intermediate cases - less than lethal damage e.g. And more frequently, there is some one part of the tank that the shooting gun can hurt, but 2-3 others it can't. Meaning a shot has to (1) hit (2) find the right location and then (3) do enough once it gets through. The other guy might have a more powerful gun, and only really worry about (1). That is how one tank typically beats another - it just has better overall chances.

There is also another typical way, less dependent on the technical specs of the weapons. Teamwork, you get the drop on somebody ("bounce") while he is facing the wrong way. And just get him. Stealth plays a bit part in it, it is "stalking" tactics, waiting for the moment the enemy vehicle is doing something else, then making one of those short movements that puts him in your sights.

The other major tank killers are towed guns, the big ones in particular. They shoot much like tanks, but can be knocked out by any large weapon. But they hide in terrain very well. Typically, a gun in woods won't be seen until it opens fire, or infantry walks right over it.

Their big drawback is they don't really move. Making them ambush weapons. (You can tow them, but setting up is something they need to do where nobody can see them. And you can push them short distances, but it takes too long to go far).

Guns also have a tactic called "keyholing" - peeping through a narrow lane, rather than a wide open arc. Because once spotted, they are quite vulnerable to many weapons - if they can see the whole world, the whole world can see them once they fire, and they die rapidly. A keyhole - 30 degree field of view e.g. - cuts the number of enemy who can see them the moment they fire. They can outshoot the few guys there. The enemy can't avoid that area because (1) before you fire he doesn't know where you are and (2) you can criss-cross 2 or more lanes.

The best weapon to kill a gun in an on-map mortar. Those can toss HE at anything the leader commanding them can see, even if they can't see it themselves. ("Spotting"). The HQ isn't firing, and is in cover, so it won't be seen. So the enemy has nothing to shoot back at, and the mortar fires until the gun is destroyed. In the meantime, everyone stays out of the areas it can see, because they know it won't be there long.

You may have noticed by now that there is one thing "higher" than having a tank in all of this - it is stealth, tactical surprise, catching the other guy in a way he can't hit back. There are so many paper scissors rock things, that if you pick what fights what and the other guy just has to live with it, you win.

Well, all that brings about a tendency to hide. People wait for openings, and moving forward always risks being seen first and caught unawares. Somebody should really go first and find out what is there. Something less valuable than your best tank. And something has to make the enemy fire and show himself, so your own rocks and scissors have things to smash and cut.

That is where infantry comes in. It scouts, puts eyes everywhere. It makes the enemy fire, by threatening to walk right up to him. Infantry is strong at close range and when it is in cover. So people don't want to let a whole bunch of it get into the woods right next to them. Send some infantry, and somebody has to stop them, or they settle down in those woods and spend the rest of the fight there.

They also keep the enemy infantry out, away from your own larger weapons. They can't get through any area of cover with your own infantry in it, without taking them out first.

There are two ways of trying to stop infantry without showing all your own men. You can drop off board artillery on them. Like the mortar situation, they can't tell where it is coming from - some guy with a radio somewhere. And you can fire at long range with light, stealthy weapons. Things like machinegun teams, snipers, light flak - can remain mere "sound contacts" while firing, if they are in cover and the range is long.

But at some point, purely assymmetric "plays" aren't available anymore or aren't hitting hard enough, and somebody cuts lose with all his infantry and whatever guns are still hiding and pops his tanks into wide LOS positions. Everybody and his brother fires - a "mad minute" it is called. Frequently, firefights are decided in a few such mad minutes, with one side or the other getting the upper hand permanently.

What does that mean? It means the other side is out of live tanks. It means his big guns have all shown themselves and been knocked out. It means his infantry is pinned and crawling away from the worst areas. It means his FOs and on-map mortars are out of ammo. That is how you run out of "airspeed, altitude, and ideas" in tactical ground combat. You've got no hidden shooters left in your bag of tricks, to stop key enemy units without getting hurt yourself. At that point, infantry and tanks just come on strong, emitting lots of fire, and everything melts in front of them.

Conceptually, people sometimes speak of "the armor war" and "the infantry war" or infantry and HE war. They mean by the first, who will be left with living tanks when the other guy runs out of tanks and serious guns, both. That is "winning the armor war". If you have tanks left but he also still has big weapons that can hurt them, you aren't there yet. It is about the special effects one can get from tanks that can operate with impunity.

The infantry-HE war is about numbers and staying power, basically. Understand that infantry works best in parts of the map with lots of cover. To dig a lot of infantry out of a piece of good cover, is hard. It takes lots of ammo, even if they are just taking it. Big artillery can do it, some types of tanks. Things like tanks can't always see all the places it goes, though (deep in woods e.g.). So, one can try for the completely different "staying power" effect, that the enemy just can't dig you out of this passel of locations, because he doesn't have the manpower or serious ammo for it. That's winning the infantry war.

Obviously one would like to win both. But in practice, one often aims to really do better on one of them, and just do well enough to stay even on the other.

I hope this helps.

[throwdjohn]

helps me jason. damn im amazed at your grasp of the game and your great, informative, and best of all simple tips.

[Moraine Sedai]

Originally posted by Sitting Duck:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by terrakota:

...please excuce my poor english

If you'd like to see some really poor english, have a glance at the latest Peng thread...

</font>

[Dave H]

Originally posted by Moraine Sedai:

(snip)

And *shoots Sitting Duck with rock salt* I don't know you, but you deserved that for that comment.

The truth always stings, doesn't it, Lady semi-Justicarette? I think Elvis is the only <font size=1>penguin</font> who really communicates in English.

JasonC does make winning at CM sound so easy. Unfortunately, you also have to stop your opponent from doing all of those same simple things to YOU! :eek: :eek:

[wunwinglow]

JasonC, can I say thank as well? I'm a newbie to this type of game too, (my background is also combat flight sims!) so your 'article' was very helpful. Much appreciated!

Now, I have to practise moving pens and matchboxes on the table, instead of waving my hands about, to demonstrate my brilliant combat victories...

Tim P

[terrakota]

thanks for the comments

and yes my english sucks big time

I'm trying to learn by my self reading books, manuals, and talking with a friend of mine that lives in my country and hes from the USA.

[junk2drive]

I'm in the USA and you won't learn "English" from your friend, lol.

Welcome and don't worry about your English. I would rather read a good post in broken English than some of the babble that comes from someone who has a great command of the language.

[LGMB]

Jason C, lord of the Grognards.