Major Gregg Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Haven't posted in awhile but I'm anxiously awaiting CMAK arrival and I've noticed that there is a new mod manager available MCMMM.I have been using CMMOS with great success in the past but I'm wondering since there hasn't been any updates since May if MCMMM is the way to go for CMAK. Will I be able to load MCMMM and still keep CMMOS or will I have to start over again and uninstall CMMOS? I haven't been able to find a detailed answer in my search,anyone? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Updates to CMMOS and CMHQ are both in the works to better support and accomodate CMAK. In fact I am working on some new exclusive sound mods for CMAK which will be hosted only on CMHQ. Madmatt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I don't know about CMAK but for CMBB I originally used CMMOS and then later used MCMMM without taking off the CMMOS mods, and there was no problem at all. I can't remember what I had Modded so I'm not sure if they where the same bitmaps. So in answer to your question, I had no problem using both, but I didn't fully test Cheers Ed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJK Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 FWIW, I used McMMM (pronounced "Mic Yummmm" as if it were a McDonald's burger) last night for the few CMAK mods that I have. Worked like a charm once I told it where CMAK was installed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 For CMMOS and CMAK, I do have the beginnings of the support now, many thanks to Gordon. I just need to work up the filelists for everything item in the game, bmps and wavs. If the general community wants CMMOS support for CMAK then it is do able. MikeT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Gregg Posted December 6, 2003 Author Share Posted December 6, 2003 Thanks for the input.I really enjoyed using CMMOS and still do,so if you are going to keep it updated I will use it.Nice to know you can use both though,keep up the great work guys,that's why these games are the best around!It is very appreciated by people like me who love the mods but don't make them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Originally posted by Madmatt: Updates to CMMOS and CMHQ are both in the works to better support and accomodate CMAK. In fact I am working on some new exclusive sound mods for CMAK which will be hosted only on CMHQ. Madmatt What does "exclusive" mean? GaJ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 As far as I'm aware McMMM is 1) Compatible with all CMMOS mods You can us McMMM to install and uninstall mods labelled as CMMOS compatible. 2) Interoperable with CMMOS. IE you can install some mods with CMMOS and install others with McMMM and you should not have a problem. McMMM puts things back just the way it found them, if you use it to uninstall a mod that it previously installed. About the only thing you can't do is use McMMM to uninstall a mod when you used CMMOS to install it. Is your head spinning now? GaJ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 To put a finer point on it for those of you not yet using McMMM, you CAN dump all your CMMOS into McMMM and it will be perfectly happy to use them as well as all the non-CMMOS mods you have/will d/l. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou2000 Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 And McMMM's other advantage is it can support CMBO, CMBB and CMAK all from the same progaram. All without even mentioning 'rulesets' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Gregg Posted December 6, 2003 Author Share Posted December 6, 2003 Since I already have every CMMOS mod for both CMBO/CMBB I'll d/l MCMMM and use that for CMAK and then eventually d/l some non-compliant CMMOS mods for CMBO/CMBB.After awhile I may just use one but as long as I can have both and I've got allot of time into CMMOS I'll use both. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Originally posted by GreenAsJade: As far as I'm aware McMMM is 1) Compatible with all CMMOS mods You can us McMMM to install and uninstall mods labelled as CMMOS compatible. 2) Interoperable with CMMOS. IE you can install some mods with CMMOS and install others with McMMM and you should not have a problem. McMMM puts things back just the way it found them, if you use it to uninstall a mod that it previously installed. About the only thing you can't do is use McMMM to uninstall a mod when you used CMMOS to install it. Is your head spinning now? GaJ. GaJ, I'm curious. Does McMMM support overlay mods? Can McMMM support installing the same set of options across multiple mods? What about application of Conditional, Advanced and Exact rules? CMMOS is about more than just slapping and removing suffixes off of BMPs. The supposed complexity of CMMOS and file lists and rule sets was not created by me out of a perverse whim, but rather, was created to support a certain set of features desired by the mod creator/mod user community at the time (CMBO). You see back in the day (CMBO), due to texture sharing among different units in game, simply installing a mod for 1 vehicle could impact the graphics of several different vehicles (the US and British Shermans is a prime example with their shared turrets). Also, there were a lot of unit-specific mods (e.g., British Guards Armoured Division, German 15th Panzer Division) that become a little tedious when you have to apply the same mod option separately to 15 different vehicle mods and 3 separate infantry mods. CMMOS was designed to push some of the complexity of dealing with such difficult, complex decisions off of the mod user and onto the mod creator, giving the mod user simple push buttons and menus to select the various different options that mods supported. So, good luck with McMMM, which seems like it's becoming popular, but please do not claim to support CMMOS mods until you can support ALL CMMOS mods. At which time, I'll be happy to remove CMMOS from the community as irrelevant. Gordon Molek 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroCat Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 It seems to me MCMMM is just a convenient way to complete swap mods in and out from one folder without having to manually unzip them, but CMMOS is much more powerful with the ability to swap multiple parts of multiple mods simultaneously. I would hope CMMOS would continue as the premier mod user tool for the CM games. Thanks Gordon! Jordan "AstroCat" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Gregg Posted December 7, 2003 Author Share Posted December 7, 2003 I have to agree with Astrocat on that one Gordon.CMMOS is still my choice because of just what you posted.It takes away from me having to go through every single vehicle just to say, get the right comp/division markings on them.My point was that I hadn't seen any major updates on CMMOS lately and I haven't been floating around here for some time and it looked as if it was being replaced.Matt stated earlier that he was working on some things and hopefully it will be updated with CMAK mods that will surely be coming up.You helped me back when I first installed cmmos and it's been absolutely perfect for me.My point was if I can have both, then it will help me using a non-compliant mod that I may like that isn't available in CMMOS.I, like many , would truly appreciate CMAK mods and rulesets for CMMOS,but I know it's allot of time and work and I'd hate to beg you out of "retirement". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 CMMOS and McMMM are two different tools with different goals in mind. What would be the point of having two tool that do the _same_ thing? If we find that McMMM does exactly what CMMOS already does, if the answers to Gordon's questions above were "yes, yes, yes", then I just wasted months of my life! I would have been better off contributing to the development of CMMOS or doing something else. But McMMM and CMMOS are different tools for different needs. Users have choice! Great, eh? Here's how I see the choice: McMMM is an application that takes the hassle out of unzipping and installing/uninstalling BMPs and WAVs from ZIP files ("Mods"). That's it. No frills, very easy to install and use, no imposition on Mod makers, handles any Mod. No rules, no conditional thingys, nothing to download except a zip file containing the BMPs or WAVs that you want to swap in or out. CMMOS is completely different. It is much more sophisticated. It lets you do a list of things that Gordon hints at above. With sophistication comes a price: higher learning curve, some extra effort for Mod makers, some restrictions on the Mods that can be handled. These buy you the list of features that CMMOS has. Sometimes posts give a feel of competition between the two tools. I don't see it that way at all*. I would like to see places that distribute CMMOS and/or McMMM distributing them both. They should have a feature list for each, like the ones above (but with all the sophisticated CMMOS things spelled out) and let users choose the tool that they want. A richer set of tools for people to use, more fun had playing and Moding CM. I don't want McMMM to be seen as "better" or "worse" than CMMOS. The choice is about what you want to do, not which is better or worse at the same thing. GaJ. *: Well, OK... of course the developer of any application would like people to use their application, and I'm no different, I'm sure Gordon is not either. But its not adversarial competition in the same space, it's a friendly rivalry to see what different tools attract lots of happy users. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Originally posted by Gordon: So, good luck with McMMM, which seems like it's becoming popular, but please do not claim to support CMMOS mods until you can support ALL CMMOS mods. At which time, I'll be happy to remove CMMOS from the community as irrelevant. Gordon Molek I just noticed a definition thing here. When I say that McMMM "supports a Mod", it means that it "can read the ZIP file that the mod is in and correctly install sets of BMPs from there". It doesn't meant that it can do all the things that CMMOS can do with the same Mod. For me, a Mod is just a zip file containing BMPs. Instead of saying "McMMM supports all CMMOS mods", maybe I should more carefully say "McMMM can handle all CMMOS mods". Which, as far as I know, is true. Is that OK with you Gordon? As per my previous post, let's not talk about CMMOS becoming irrelevant! As posters were quick to tell you, they love CMMOS. GaJ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 GaJ, I don't think you understood the point of my post. McMMM can not claim to install/support/handle CMMOS mods unless it supports all the features of CMMOS mods. Otherwise, the CMMOS mod(s) installed by McMMM may not be fully functional, and the mod user won't know it's broken until things look screwed up in-game (in which case they may end up blaming the mod's creator for the problem). Granted, McMMM can support the simplest, most basic of CMMOS mods, but those are the kinds of mods that don't require the power of CMMOS. So, please continue to advertise the simplicity and ease of use of McMMM, and add features/functionality as you see fit to address the needs and concerns of the users of McMMM and I wish you the very best of luck in your endeavor. Few people realize how much time and effort people freely give to create 3rd party software and mods for the Combat Mission family of games. However, I believe it causes too much confusion and does a diservice to the mod community when you and others state that McMMM can handle/support/install CMMOS mods when it really can't, because, as you say, in order to do so, you'd have to re-invent CMMOS in order to support all of it's features. Gordon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by Gordon: GaJ, However, I believe it causes too much confusion and does a diservice to the mod community when you and others state that McMMM can handle/support/install CMMOS mods when it really can't, because, as you say, in order to do so, you'd have to re-invent CMMOS in order to support all of it's features. Gordon One of the basic intents of McMMM was that it would be able to sensibly install BMPs and WAVs from all Mods that are out there. As far as I know, it does this. I would love to take a look at a CMMOS-compatible Mod that someone feels McMMM can't sensibly handle... maybe CMMOS has moved up a notch in complexity since I looked at it last? Cheers, GaJ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by GreenAsJade: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gordon: GaJ, However, I believe it causes too much confusion and does a diservice to the mod community when you and others state that McMMM can handle/support/install CMMOS mods when it really can't, because, as you say, in order to do so, you'd have to re-invent CMMOS in order to support all of it's features. Gordon One of the basic intents of McMMM was that it would be able to sensibly install BMPs and WAVs from all Mods that are out there. As far as I know, it does this. I would love to take a look at a CMMOS-compatible Mod that someone feels McMMM can't sensibly handle... maybe CMMOS has moved up a notch in complexity since I looked at it last? Cheers, GaJ. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Where do I find an appropriate, complex King Tiger CMMOS compatible Mod to try out McMMM compatibility? I found CMMOS_King_Tigers.zip. McMMM appears to be able to handle it fine. This is what it has to say about it: Users can read the description and info using the "open" feature, as shown above. Users can select and deselect any or all of the various optional BMPs and install or uninstall them as their fancy takes them, just as they could do manually. The can examime the BMPs in each option: and mix and match the bits they want to install. Sure, McMMM doesn't know how to present the options in a clean integrated way. That's what CMMOS does. McMMM just lets the user inspect BMPs and install at will. That's what I mean by "Can handle CMMOS compatible Mods". Am I missing something? Cheers, GaJ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Gaj, Sorry, wasn't explicit enough. That was a "simple" King Tiger mod. See Combat Mission HQ Scroll down the page to the link for "GEM_PzVIB_sPzAbt503_CMMOS_hr.zip" This one uses the more advanced features of CMMOS. Try selecting one of the marking options and I think you'll see what I mean. Gordon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 (I've taken this one-on-one conversation to email) GaJ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Arghh I was enjoying that guys. Come on what's the outcome then - and are we going to see a new improved version of CMMOS that supports CMAK? I loved it for CMBB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Bergman Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 CMMOS for CMAK is a certainty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroCat Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Yes! Originally posted by Marco Bergman: CMMOS for CMAK is a certainty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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