Michael Dorosh Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Thanks to all who showed an interest. Looking for some serious playtesters, really have no idea how this one will work out with the new CMAK refinements. Many, many changes over the CMBO version including Larger map More details on eastern edge of map Historical names added to OOB More sources consulted and order of battle refined CMAK allows for understrength units to be used in the editor, a big plus! The main briefing (no spoilers): LITTLE STALINGRAD Date: 20-28 December 1943 Place: Ortona, Italy Operation Type: Allied Advance Environmental Conditions: Damp ground, Mixed Battles: 20 (3 battles per day, no night combat possible) Turns per Battle: 20+ (Variable) Battle Window: 1520 metres (the entire map is 1600 metres long) Game Notes This is an Advance type Operation; to win, the Allies must reach the north edge of the map and inflict more casualties than they lose. Each battle represents 1/3 of an actual day. Night battles have not been included as the effects of night are not well simulated in CM, and little actual combat actually took place at night. The actual battle devolved quickly into isolated skirmishes between squads and platoons; consider each CM battle to represent the sum total of all the skirmishes that took place in an 8 hour period. Battle 1 - 20 Dec afternoon Battle 2 - 20 Dec evening/night Battle 3 - 21 Dec morning Battle 4 - 21 Dec afternoon Battle 5 - 21 Dec evening/night Battle 6 - 22 Dec morning Battle 7 - 22 Dec afternoon Battle 8 - 22 Dec evening/night Battle 9 - 23 Dec morning Battle 10 - 23 Dec afternoon Battle 11 - 23 Dec evening/night Battle 12 - 24 Dec morning Battle 13 - 24 Dec afternoon Battle 14 - 24 Dec evening/night Battle 15 - 25 Dec morning Battle 16 - 25 Dec afternoon Battle 17 - 25 Dec evening/night Battle 18 - 26 Dec morning Battle 19 - 26 Dec afternoon Battle 20 - 26 Dec evening/night The goal for the Canadians is to improve on the historical outcome. If the Canadians can win this operation by the end of the 20th battle (26 December), it means they did better than their historical counterparts; Ortona did not fall until the Germans withdrew about 24 hours after this operation's timeframe. If the Germans manage to hang on to territory north of the town square by the end of the operation, the result has been historical. Assume the game to be a draw; the Germans will retreat a day later as they did historically and the First Division will retire to lick their wounds. If the Germans manage to control considerable territory south of the town square by the end of the operation, however, consider the operation a German victory. In-game units with historical names are denoted with an (*). Historical Background (No spoilers) ***Context*** The First Canadian Infantry Division relieved the British 78th Division on the Adriatic coast of Italy at the start of December, 1943. Both divisions had seen action in Sicily and if the Canadians weren't "veterans" as the 78th were (by virtue of their North African experience), they were at the very least competent. In fact, the German Commander in Chief of the Italian theatre, Albert Kesselring, had singled out the Canadians for mention in a dispatch to Berlin during the Sicily fighting. The Canadians had landed on the Italian mainland in September, to find the Germans had retreated well to the north. A change of government in Rome, and official Italian capitulation, did not result in peace. German forces quickly mobilized throughout Italy, and as the Canadians began their march north on the right flank of the Allied armies, resistance stiffened. The American 5th Army was hung up south of Rome, and it was the intention of the British 8th Army, working up on their right along the east coast of Italy, to come in behind the German defences. Unfortunately, the Sangro River proved to be a serious obstacle. The German Tenth Army hoped to anchor their so-called Gustav Line here, and hold on throughout the winter until the spring brought campaigning weather. If the British 78th Division was worn out, so too were their opponets, the inexprienced German 65th Division. They were replaced after their defensive battles on the Sangro by the German 90th Light Division, reconstituted after their destruction in North Africa. By the beginning of December, Allied troops had broken the German lines. The 2nd New Zealand Division crossed the River Moro to the west of the Canadians and captured Orosgna. Charles Allfrey, commanding the V Corps of the British 8th Army, to whom the Canadian Division was assigned, signalled Major General Chris Vokes, their commander. "You must get over the River Moro as soon as possible." Bloody December was under way, and with it the Moro River Campaign. This would be the first real divisional level battle fought by Canadians in the Second World War. All of the division's infantry battalions fought desperate actions during the next two weeks and the Canadians fought their way through the Moro River Valley, taking villages, towns, crossroads and a feature known only as "The Gully." Losses were high, the weather and mud challenging, and pressure from higher headquarters, including General Montgomery, was intense. When The Gully was finally taken, no one expected the Germans to remain in Ortona for several reasons. a) Standard German practice was to withdraw to easily defensible terrain; the Arielli River was only three miles north of Ortona and would make a fine defensive obstacle. The world had watched as the German Sixth Army - and their Soviet opponents - were destroyed piece by piece in Stalingrad less than a year previously, highlighting the dangers of committing to urban combat and reinforcing the prevailing doctrine - in both Allied and Axis armies - of bypassing cities where possible. c) Allied forces advancing to the northwest, including Indian and New Zealand troops, might easily cut the main highway north of Ortona, trapping a large German force in the city itself. Ortona's location right on the coast naturally limited the ability of German defenders to extricate themselves when and if necessary. To the west was a deep ravine and the only route out of Ortona was Highway 16. The Allies expected Ortona to be taken peacefully, and as they wished to turn it into an administrative centre, complete with port facilities, the city proper was spared any serious bombardment. Most of the 10,000 inhabitants had gone; large numbers of the able-bodied males had been removed for slave labour duties in the Reich or fascist-controlled Italy, and the remaining civilians had largely fled to the surrounding mountains,or else nearby railway tunnels. They were spared the sight of the Germans demolishing the port and collapsing many of the houses in the city to clear fields of fire and prevent the movement of tanks in the streets. German paratroopers from the 1st Parachute Division had begun relieving exhausted units of the 90th Light Division, and elements of the 3rd Parachute Regiment prepared to defend Ortona. Kill zones were created and side streets were blocked off, channelling would-be attackers up the main street. The main defence was organized under the command of Gotthard Liebscher , who with his battalion had once held up an entire British brigade during the fighting in Sicily. This main street - Corso Vittoria Emmanuelle - turned into Highway 16 and was also atypical of Ortona roadways, most of which were narrow and twisting. The old section of Ortona dated back to the 1400s, centred on a dilapidated castle overlooking the artificial harbor at the bottom of the cliffs bordering the city on the east. San Tomasso Cathedral dominated the skyline, while the narrow streets surrounding it were crowded by tall buildings, some up to 5 stories high. The newer suburbs of Ortona to the south were laid out in rectangular blocks, though again these streets too were quite narrow. ***The Battle*** Like Stalingrad, the fighting in Ortona was very demanding and took place largely between small groups of men, often one house or one room at a time. Some aspects of the fighting are not easily portrayed in CM, and booby traps, on-call demolitions and tunnels all played a role in the skillful German defence. Specific notes on weapons and tactics employed by each side are included in the specific briefings so as not to give away potential spoilers here. In general, however, the battle progressed slowly, with the Canadians having to devise ways of using firepower to kill Germans solidly ensconced in solid buildings and defensive positions. 5 December With the Canadians still far to the south, shells began to fall in Ortona, mainly in the Costantinopoli neighbourhood. With winter cold having set in, many evacuees had returned home from the hills. The shelling convinces them to once again leave; some shelter in caves others to the crowded railway tunnels. 6 December German tanks arrive in Ortona for the first time, taking positions in the southeastern sector of the city. 18 December German forces have delayed the Canadians to the south of the city, buying time for extensive defensive preparations to be made. Civilians are flushed out of hiding in the city by German troops, to spare innocent lives but also out of fear of espionage and other benefits to Allied intelligence. Many refuse to go, however, and certain localities become crowded, such as the hospital at Piazza san Francesco. Demolitions in the town are completed as the main street is blocked, and the clock removed from city hall to be replaced with automatic weapons. 20 Dececember Leading elements of the 2nd Canadian Brigade approached the outskirts of Ortona; The Loyal Edmonton Regiment advanced some 3000 yards that day behind a massive barrage, and all first day objectives were seized and held. Engineer and Artillery support moved up. Elements of the Seaforth Highlanders came under command of the Edmontons, and eventually the entire battalion was committed inside the city. The Canadians advance as far as Piazza Vittoria, about 1/3 of the way into the city. Evacuees to the south, recognizing the Canadian helmets, flocked to them only to come under shellfire themselves. Ten civilians were killed and twenty more wounded; civilian Rommaso Paolini bled to death while embracing his dead daughter, Rita; Canadian stretcher bearers broke down at the sight. Civilian casualties had been common in the fighting to the south and promised to be much worse in the city. That night, the ancient Cathedrale San Tomasso was cleaved in half by German demolitions. This dominating terrain feature had made a useful reference point for Allied artillery observers. Other buildings on the west side of town that could conceivably help Canadian artillerymen were also brought down. Villa Primavera was demolished on top of 34 civilians; the last voice heard from among the rubble was nine-year old Armando Colucci, known as "Dodo." Members of five seperate families died under the rubble. 21 December The sun rose over a dramatically altered skyscape; German forces fought viciously in the outskirts of the town, and the Seaforths managed to capture the Santa Maria di Costantinopoli church. By sunset, the Germans had withdrawn to the narrow, twisted streets of the old city, leaving behind mines and a final barrage of Nebelwerfers. By this time artillery had fallen throughout the city, bringing more suffering to those civilians who refused to leave. 22 December The Canadians reached the Piazza Municipali (Town Square), roughly 2/3 of the way into the city. On this day, the Associated Press made reference to a "miniature Stalingrad in hapless Ortona." The result was unfortunate for the men who fought there; the German commander in chief in Italy, Field Marshall Albert Kesselring, complained three days later that "we do not want to defend Ortona decisively, but the English have made it as important as Rome...you can do nothing when things develop in this manner; it is only too bad that...the world press makes so much of it." The New York Times was one of many papers to carry the story, and the Stalingrad reference. The War Diary of the Loyal Edmonton Regiment recorded the following on this day: "Street and house to house fighting continues. The enemy is showing a desperate resistance. Our 6 Pdr guns are engaging barricades and strong points to clear a passage for tanks. Since the Hun has blown down buildings to block off all the streets, it has been decided to concentrate on the clearing of the main axis through the city to enable our tanks to advance. 'D' Coy, flanked by 'B' Coy on the right and 'A' Coy on the left, clear the main street to the second city square where concentrated MMG fire and strong opposition is encountered. Clearing of the large buildings adjacent to this street, particularly towards the Esplanade, necessitates continuous fighting by these three Coys." 23 December Forces to the northwest of the city trying desperately to cut off the northern escape route from Ortona suffer heavy losses. The southeast quadrant of Ortona falls to the Canadians, but more buildings are demolished during the night, and routes for advancing out from the town square are blocked. 24 December Fighting in the west of Ortona intensifies, in the area around the school; when the Canadians learn there are hundreds of civilians sheltering there the attack is suspended. The hospital would not be taken until much later, after a mass exodus of the civilians taking shelter there. The 48th Highlanders manage to break through German lines to the northwest, but instead of cutting the German escape route find themselves cut off and without supplies instead. 25 December The Seaforth Highlanders host a Christmas dinner for their troops, in the recently captured Santa Maria di Costantinopoli church. Companies are relieved one at a time to withdraw and enjoy a holiday dinner before being returned to the fighting. Some men are killed during the trip to and from the church. 26 December The savagery of the battle was evidenced on this day by the demolition of a house containing a Canadian platoon; 23 men were killed and 1 man buried alive for three days. German pioneers had booby trapped the house with a sizeable explosive charge. The Canadians retaliated later by similarly demolishing a house with up to 50 Germans in it. 27 December German forces are now penned in between the demolished San Tommaso cathedral and the Castle; German positions in the Cemetery, previously resisting furiously, are finally reduced by the Seaforths with the help of heavy artillery fire. For the first time, naval gunfire is used in support of the troops in Ortona as Allied warships arrive off the coast. After dark, a night time communication arrived at the last German command post, a warehouse in Terravecchia, one of the northern districts. Hauptmann Liebscher was ordered to save what was left of his battalion. Warnings from the Canadians - to Germans and civilians alike - had been given that carpet bombardment of the city would be carried out at 10:00 on the 28th. 28 December Stunned Canadian patrols advanced on the castle to find that Ortona was apparently free of the enemy. In fact, they had slipped out of the city the previous night, withdrawing to the north. Efforts by allied troops to the northwest of the city had failed to cut Highway 16. ***Casualties*** Casualties for the Loyal Edmonton Regiment had been 172 (over 60 of which were fatal). The Seaforths had lost 42 killed and 78 wounded. German losses remain unknown, though 100 bodies were recovered by the Canadians after the battle. One source states that 200 Germans were killed in total. After the battle, Jim Stone, commanding "D" Company of the Loyal Edmontons, was asked "If you had to do this again, what would you like for troops?" His reply: "German paratroops." ***Aftermath*** After Ortona, the entire First Canadian Division went into winter positions on the south side of the Arielli River Valley, and a three month programme of patrolling began, as reinforcements were absorbed and the armies on both sides waited for spring, and campaigning weather. The First Canadian Division had been badly hurt during the month of December; as a whole, the division lost 695 killed, and with wounded, sick and missing, casualties equalled 4,206. Two German divisions were seriously mauled in the Moro campaign; 90th Light and 1st Paratroop. By the time the 90th Light Division was relieved, its insistence on mounting unnecessary counterattacks had depleted it badly. Months were needed to rebuild the division; one battalion of the 361st Panzergrenadier Regiment had only 12 men left. Some 400 Germans from this division were in Canadian PW cages in addition to hundreds more killed and wounded. As Canadian reinforcements made their way north to join their new units (though even on the last day of December the Division remained 1,050 men below authorized strength), they passed a small sign left behind at the entrance of the city by proud Vancouverites and Edmontonians: THIS IS ORTONA A WEST CANADIAN TOWN References: A variety of fairly recent references have been consulted, and are recommended reading, including: Saverio di Tullio, 1943: THE ROAD TO ORTONA (Translated from Italian by Angela Arnone and Alex MacQuarrie) (1998, Legas) Mark Zuehlke, ORTONA: CANADA'S EPIC WORLD WAR TWO BATTLE Daniel Dancocks, D-DAY DODGERS, THE CANADIANS IN ITALY 1943-45 Reginald Roy, THE SEAFORTH HIGHLANDERS OF CANADA, 1919-1965 Additional maps and photos can be found in ALBERTA IN THE 20TH CENTURY Volume Eight: THE WAR THAT UNITED THE PROVINCE (Section Four: Pain, Death and Victory - Alberta's soldiers make military history at Italy's Ortona). (2000 United Western Communications Ltd.) THE CANADIANS AT WAR: 1939/45 Volume Two (1969 The Reader's Digest Association) Find it at the following URL at The Proving Grounds: http://www.the-proving-grounds.com/scenario_details_link.html?sku=216 Direct link to the site itself: http://www.the-proving-grounds.com/index.html [ December 30, 2003, 03:11 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletRat Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Are you sure Little Stalingrad is the right name? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 30, 2003 Author Share Posted December 30, 2003 Oh, and I'm aware of the numerous tense changes in the briefing... ... put it down to having a chest cold for two damn weeks...this will be cleaned up before the tested scenario goes to the Depot after the Proving Ground boys (and any other interested parties) are done with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dook Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Michael, You mentioned that tunnels were used in the defense of Ortona. Had you planned to use sewer movement to simulate this? Did the lack of sewer movement in CMAK change your plans? Just curious. Dook 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 30, 2003 Author Share Posted December 30, 2003 Originally posted by Dook: Michael, You mentioned that tunnels were used in the defense of Ortona. Had you planned to use sewer movement to simulate this? Did the lack of sewer movement in CMAK change your plans? Just curious. Dook yes! :mad: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJK Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Looks intense Michael, I'll have to check with a number of my current Pbem partners to see if one is up for the challenge. Thanks for posting it at TPG, I'm sure a number of folks will give it a try. Could take a while though, 20 battle op, especially if it's Pbem'd Hey, I like your SL terrain mod, looks like you have the colors just about perfect. Is it toned down a little bit, or is it the same as before? Maybe it's just the overhead shot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan99 Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Very interesting. Awesome looking map. I don't think I'll be the first one to tackle it though. Personally, I don't like the way advance operations are scored. I had a very bad experience with Carentan in CMBO, where I played a fun game, but the scoring was ridiculous. The map is small enough. Have you considered doing this one as a static op, and adding some objective flags? Oh, and where is my Kamienka turn? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 30, 2003 Author Share Posted December 30, 2003 Originally posted by Runyan99: Very interesting. Awesome looking map. I don't think I'll be the first one to tackle it though. Personally, I don't like the way advance operations are scored. I had a very bad experience with Carentan in CMBO, where I played a fun game, but the scoring was ridiculous. The map is small enough. Have you considered doing this one as a static op, and adding some objective flags? Oh, and where is my Kamienka turn? I'm still running on my laptop - been without my PC for four weeks and counting - but I have CMBB running finally. If you resend the last we can continue... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 30, 2003 Author Share Posted December 30, 2003 Originally posted by GJK: Hey, I like your SL terrain mod, looks like you have the colors just about perfect. Is it toned down a little bit, or is it the same as before? Maybe it's just the overhead shot. It looks a little less garish when viewed by satellite from outer space. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 31, 2003 Author Share Posted December 31, 2003 Little bump for the day shift. What did all the Canadians here do, take a day off??? And a big yay for me that my hard drive was replaced and no data lost and is finally at home after four weeks...if anyone is still reading this I hope to get those pesky ASL interface mods up at the mod depot sometime in the next week or so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: And a big yay for me that my hard drive was replaced and no data lost and is finally at home after four weeks...Congrats. That must have set you back a month's pay or two. Or did you have a friend do it? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 31, 2003 Author Share Posted December 31, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: And a big yay for me that my hard drive was replaced and no data lost and is finally at home after four weeks...Congrats. That must have set you back a month's pay or two. Or did you have a friend do it? Michael </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugilist Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 A Canuck here without CMAK. I will play this one as soon as it hits my doorstep--I am ordering the game in 3 days and counting. I am actually buying CMAK purely to play the Canadians in Italy. Many thanks in advance for the pending challenge and the obvious, but I'm sure worthwhile, dedicated work. The scenario looks fantastic--almost too good. Seriously, can't wait. Too bad we can't "mousehole". (Unless CMAK allows for this somehow). It is cool to see the -reader's digest two volume Canadians at war- reference. I just bought it used for my brother for xmas. Any general thoughts on the volumes? I own it myself of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mPisi Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 I enjoyed the CMBO version so I'll give this one a shot too. Edit: I mean whe it gets done, I can't be relied upon to finish a betatest in any time at all... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Looking for an opponent to test this one out via pbem. Send me a setup, your choice of sides. Address is in my profile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 1, 2004 Author Share Posted January 1, 2004 Originally posted by Konstantine: It is cool to see the -reader's digest two volume Canadians at war- reference. I just bought it used for my brother for xmas. Any general thoughts on the volumes? I own it myself of course. Even despite the age of the volumes (late 1960s IIRC), there are some good photos that have not been published in other "mainstream" books, and some good info. There was a diagram of the school in Ortona, for example, and a first person account of the fighting in that tiny sector, which was of assistance in making this scenario. I don't know how the text really reads - I've never read it cover to cover - but if the book goes into grand strategy, I imagine it will suffer a bit for not including Enigma type info - but I get the impression the book isn't about that. Incidentally, a slim third volume contains diagrams and descriptions of weapons systems for the three services, as well as German and Japanese stuff. Dated by today's standards, it is still a nice addition to a bookshelf if you can find it. Did you know it even existed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 I just noticed (after an email) that the download link at the Proving Grounds doesn't work. I wonder if it is a Netscape issue - I tried the link myself at work and I get an error, due I think to the space in the name. Worked fine at home on IE, though. Gary, tried to find your email address on the site but Netscape scrambles the pictures and links sometimes and never does well with frames. If you manage to read this before I get home to my email address book, any chance of looking at this? Maybe the file on the site needs to be zipped/renamed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJK Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Hi Mike, just seeing your post here. This is the first time that I've heard of an issue with downloading the files. I've coded it so that spaces and even non-standard characters wouldn't be a problem. I've tested it in IE and Opera on the PC and IE on the Mac and am about to test Mozilla as soon as it boots. The spaces would have no effect as they are compensated with the %20 hex value. Maybe this is a Netscape only issue? I don't have Netscape loaded on any of my computers, but could install it to test, or perhaps I'll just ask others on the site who may be using Netscape to let me know if they've had any problems when downloading. Ok, just tested this in Netscape 7 on the Mac, and when I clicked to download, the raw scenario data showed. This is most likely a file association with the browser, but the easy fix was to option-click and then do a "Save file as". It came down fine then. Does the link just not work, or are you seeing the raw scenario text as I did above? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Michael, If possible, can you e-mail me the Op? I have an opponent whom is interested in testing it out. My address is in my profile. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 Originally posted by Kingfish: Michael, If possible, can you e-mail me the Op? I have an opponent whom is interested in testing it out. My address is in my profile. Thanks I can from home in about 8 hours. Gary - Netscape really, really sucks but for some reason the hospital uses it as standard. Probably a cost saving measure. I get an actual error message stating that there is a non-standard character in the filename (I presume this refers to the space). Not a big deal but I thought I would alert you to it anyway. I've given up on trying to please Netscape users with my own sites. Sometimes a Microsoft monopoly doesn't look so bad after all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsdale Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 I'll send Kozure By. He wanted to playtest. He's in my WWIIOnline squad. I'm just about to order my copy and so is a fellow sqaudmate. We both are looking forward to your work. Cheers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Just wanted to say this is one of the best urban maps I've seen. Clearly a lot of time and research went into it, and it shows. I've just sent my opponent my orders for T-3, so its way too early to tell how it plays, but so far the map, force selections and briefings are top notch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 12, 2004 Author Share Posted January 12, 2004 Originally posted by Runyan99: The map is small enough. Have you considered doing this one as a static op, and adding some objective flags? Oh, and where is my Kamienka turn? Still waiting for your turn!! I think you may be right about a Static op. It was very easy in my CMBO version to exploit the open terrain on the right side of the map. I put some woods and rough in the CMAK version, and it is still way too easy to simply race forces up the board edge and avoid fighting in the city altogether. (Thanks also to Brian for his email regarding this scenario, he was able to run up the other board edge). Since I can't force the player to act historically by fighting in the city proper in an advance scenario, I am thinking static is the way to go. Anyone else have thoughts on the battle lengths? I had it set to 15 in CMBO and 20 turns variable in CMAK. I think maybe the 15 was a good number to go with, now. Thanks to all who have tried this out so far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan99 Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Still waiting for your turn!! Okay, I did not get it. Please resend it to crunyan7@cox.net 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 29, 2004 Author Share Posted January 29, 2004 Looks like Wego's thread got eaten by the board (they suspected he was Gunny Bunny anyway, given his comments in the GF). Nonetheless, wanted to thank Kingfish for trying this out as he mentioned in that thread. Still up at the Proving Grounds for testing. My own testing (as well as emails from Brian and some others) have highlighted some changes that will be made in the second version. (Thanks also to GJK for testing this one out with me, we are on battle 4 right now). SPOILERS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . As feared, allied armour can simply roll up the right flank and push the front line back instead of having to fight in the city proper. My changes are largely based on rectifying these wrongs, to wit: a) more rough terrain on the coastal side of the map steeper cliffs on the coastal side, which is probably more accurate anyway (based on oblique photos in the absence of actual terrain contour maps) preventing infantry flanking movements c) changing from an advance type operation to static, with 20 flags scattered throughout the town d) changing from 20 turns per battle to 15, to prevent any massive breakthroughs by the Allies in any given battle Also, I mistakenly thought that TRPs would carry over from battle to battle; I've given the Germans fresh ones each battle in the second version of the op, as well as the ability to "rubble" more buildings between days. Also, included more nasty surprises for the allies by way of boobytraps, fortified buildings, and the like. Any further input still welcome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.