Lt Bull Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Hello, I just received a PBEM file from an opponent. It was a movie + orders file. I watched the move and proceeded to the orders. I noticed an enemy infantry unit that I hadn't seen during the movie so I reloaded the same PBEM file to view the movie again. To my absolute surprise the outcome of the movie was absolutely NOT the same outcome as I saw in the first movie. In the first movie I lost 3 tanks and my opponent one. In the second movie I lost one tank and my opponent 2!!!!! What the freak is going on here? It is as if the one PBEM file had 2 different movies for the same minute of action!!! Haven't done any further testing as I am too busy. BTS? Lt Bull [ March 07, 2004, 02:26 AM: Message edited by: Lt Bull ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDork Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 So the first time you lost 3 tanks but the second time you only lost 1. Where's the problem? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbringer Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Originally posted by BigDork: So the first time you lost 3 tanks but the second time you only lost 1. Where's the problem? Lt. Bull is a class act, and the problem is his integrity. Calling him a cheater when he is winning(I have many times)has not turned him into one. He sent me BOTH files and the file he played first was the one he lost 3 tanks. I thought that the outcome of pbem movie turns was always supposed to be the same? BTS fix or do sumfink! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 hmmm, i don't see how the file could change. the crunching's already been done and all you're watching is the movie. as the android would say, "this does not compute!"(at this point smoke comes out of his ears and he tilts to the side and breaks down). weird.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Are you using PBEMHelper at all , or in Trusted mode if so? Thinks must run a few films were I could have done better ..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiviadis Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 I've seen this myself in "Tank Warning" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Strange. When I reload a view+order turn, re-running it certainly doesn't give different results. I just tried it just to be sure. Are these PBEM files with passwords available? If that is reproducible it needs to be mailed to, well, someone at BFC, ASAP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiviadis Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by redwolf: Strange. When I reload a view+order turn, re-running it certainly doesn't give different results. I just tried it just to be sure. Are these PBEM files with passwords available? If that is reproducible it needs to be mailed to, well, someone at BFC, ASAP. Sorry this was a awhile back, pbem, have deleted the files; perhaps it is related to size..."Tank Warning" is huge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 If this behaviour was the case it would be a major bug. And all it would take to reproduce is one single PBEM move. Bull, what about you? What happens if you reload that thing to reproduce it now? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Saunders Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by Stormbringer: I thought that the outcome of pbem movie turns was always supposed to be the same? BTS fix or do sumfink! Didn't this also just happen to our team PBEM? Hrmmmm...is the PIBKAC Stormbrought or BTS? BTS fix or do somfink! -Sarge 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Thunder Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I'm guessing that these "movies" are little more than data files created by the program and not true video files, i.e., not AVI, MPG, MOV or WMV files. There's probably some bug in the game that allows that data to be reinterpreted and thus the outcome is different when the data is processed by the game to supposedly reproduce the battle. I noticed something similar when my computer locked up on me due to a power spike and when I reloaded the autosave file the results of the exchange of fire was different than the previous one. I'm guessing these movie files are probably having the same sort of problem. If you want real movie files you'll have to rely on some screen capture utility like FRAPS to get an accurate reproduction of the battle that was actually fought. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyBlademan Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I have reloaded player vs AI turns and had different outcomes, but I can't even begin to guess what would make that happen in a pbem. Good luck 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanok Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by Lt Bull: Hello, I just received a PBEM file from an opponent. It was a movie + orders file. I watched the move and proceeded to the orders. I noticed an enemy infantry unit that I hadn't seen during the movie so I reloaded the same PBEM file to view the movie again. To my absolute surprise the outcome of the movie was absolutely NOT the same outcome as I saw in the first movie. In the first movie I lost 3 tanks and my opponent one. In the second movie I lost one tank and my opponent 2!!!!! What the freak is going on here? It is as if the one PBEM file had 2 different movies for the same minute of action!!! Haven't done any further testing as I am too busy. BTS? Lt Bull Something similar just happened to me in a CMBB pbem game. I watched the action phase of a turn where there was a one-on-one tank battle where my opponent's tank killed mine. I sent him the file, but when he watched it, his tank retreated from the battle, with neither tank firing a shot. I still have the files if anyone wants to see them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJK Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by Sanok: Something similar just happened to me in a CMBB pbem game. I watched the action phase of a turn where there was a one-on-one tank battle where my opponent's tank killed mine. I sent him the file, but when he watched it, his tank retreated from the battle, with neither tank firing a shot. I still have the files if anyone wants to see them. Might be a neat "feature" instead of a bug and a way to limit borg spotting: What if you're intelligence reports that you had an enemy tank KIA and your opponents intelligence reports that an enemy tank was spotted (yours) but not engaged. In your next plot/move, you move merrily along expecting that tank to be knocked out. Your opponent plots moves for his tank (the same one) as he sees it. Who is correct? Only the AI knows....will you move ahead without caution because you trust your intelligence reports or will your opponent waste valuable time hunting for your tank with a tank that he doesn't even really have? Only as soon as enough true intelligence is gathered does the truth about the mini-battle reveal itself.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by JonnyBlademan: I have reloaded player vs AI turns and had different outcomes, but I can't even begin to guess what would make that happen in a pbem. Good luck This is supposed to be, the movie you see is only fixed in the PBEM case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Someone needs to send a file with that occuring to Matt. All the discussion here won't solve it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Bull Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 Sorry, have been busy. I am happy to email Matt/BTS the file I recieved from Stormbringer. Can someone please supply the email address I should send it to. Just to clarify here for everyone at what point the bizzare occurrance occured. I send Stormbringer a PBEM file that would have been just a movie of Turn 29, "The Tradition Continues 090.txt" He watches the movie of Turn 29, saves it as "The Tradition Continues 091.txt" sends it to me. I haven't confirmed with him exactly what outcome he saw. This file is a Turn 29 movie + Turn 30 orders file. I watch the Turn 29 movie once, proceed to the Turn 30 orders, exit it, relaod the same file to rewatch the Turn 29 movie, but discover that the Turn 29 movie has a totally different outcome. I therefore have 2 different versions I can send back to him. Lt Bull PS: I have reloaded the "The Tradition Continues 091.txt" file again about 5 times and it has shown the same movie outcome each time now. Unfortunately, it is the least favourable of the two alternate outcomes that I have seen. I can say that the only thing that may have been different is that a few applications may have been open while I had CMAK running when the bizzare alternate outcome occurred. [ March 09, 2004, 05:19 AM: Message edited by: Lt Bull ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwxspoon Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Send it to matt@battlefront.com 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Bull Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 OK, emailed relevant PBEM files to Matt. Marshall, check your Inbox. Will be interesting to see what BTS have to say. Cheers Lt Bull [ March 09, 2004, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Lt Bull ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Originally posted by Lt Bull: PS: I have reloaded the "The Tradition Continues 091.txt" file again about 5 times and it has shown the same movie outcome each time now. Unfortunately, it is the least favourable of the two alternate outcomes that I have seen. I can say that the only thing that may have been different is that a few applications may have been open while I had CMAK running when the bizzare alternate outcome occurred. It occurs to me that a computer hardware failure turned a few bits around in your computer when you did that one run where it was different. Normally such changed bits leads to hangs or programs crashes, but if you just had a few locations affected that concern combat parameters, already drawn random numbers or seeds in the random number generator(s) then you would just get a different outcome of the turn without a crash. That reminds me to order some ECC memory for my rigs... EDITed for clarity and to say I ordered 1 GB of ECC memory [ March 09, 2004, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Bull Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by redwolf: It occurs to me that a computer hardware failure turned a few bits around in your computer when you did that one run where it was different. Normally such changed bits leads to hangs or programs crashes, but if you just had a few locations affected that concern combat parameters, already drawn random numbers or seeds in the random number generator(s) then you would just get a different outcome of the turn without a crash. Well the only kind of hardware "failure" that may have occurred was a drop in my ADSL modem. Although I can't confirm this it is HIGHLY likely that it may have occurred when I relaoded that turn. The modem is run via the USB port. It does drop the connection for no apparent reason very frequently and I have to manually re-enable the connection each time. I am sorting this out with my ISP. Lt Bull [ March 10, 2004, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: Lt Bull ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Well, a memory error in your computer is undetectable if you don't have ECC or parity RAM. You cannot be sure to have none with plain RAM. I am not sure whether turning random characters in the PBEM ASCII representation will lead to a changed outcome. I would bet that Charles coded in some checksum mechanisn to ensure the integrity of the turn. That would be easy to test but I'm still off my CM machines right now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.