Pugilist Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 This was probably covered sometime in the early days of CMBO (which I've heard does exist although I still think it's a myth )...anyways... Why can't I know when a unit becomes fanatic? I know everything else about it instantaneously--ammo, casualties, etc. Since fanaticism isn't technically abstracted (i.e. its effect isn't: it spikes a unit's morale--its "cause" is abstracted, i.e. which units become fanatic), why isn't there a "fanatic" icon for the friendly commander when a unit becomes fanatic, and more importantly, for the enemy commander when he is surveying the battlefield when a game is finished? I usually can presume at some point that a unit must be fanatic, but in the end I never know for sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 This is done so that people won't use fanatic units in an ahistorical fashion... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Originally posted by V: This is done so that people won't use fanatic units in an ahistorical fashion... You do mean in a gamey fashion? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugilist Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Isn't it gamey then to know the exact amount of ammo every squad has, or grenade bundles, or state of exhaustion? NTM, no one stops me from choosing thirteen 155mm FOs in a QB, right? So maybe a better question is "can a commander distinguish gung-ho/potentially fanatic/fanatic troops in a firefight?" I would say yes. I'm just curious as to BF's rationale, not that it detracts that much from the experience. Fanatic troops tend to occur against overwhelming odds, at least from what I presume--there's just no way to tell, which for me is irritating. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by V: This is done so that people won't use fanatic units in an ahistorical fashion... You do mean in a gamey fashion? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 So there is no indication at all of a unit reaching the fanatic status ? No wonder why i never noticed any fanatic unit in 2 years playing CM... Or is there any sign that shows it for sure ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 TRL, Nope. Only indication is their dogged "to the last man" behavior in the face of what should be known, overwhelming odds. You can figure it out sometimes when you have like a squad in a foxhole that simply won't break despite tons of fire coming down on it as the squadmates drop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Originally posted by Agua: You can figure it out sometimes when you have like a squad in a foxhole that simply won't break despite tons of fire coming down on it as the squadmates drop. Ok, so i've probably met it quite often... on the ennemy side ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesar Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Quite often it appears that an enemy unit is fanatic and unbreakable and yet the unit is in fact panicked/broken and you are basically just wasting ammo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugilist Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Originally posted by Caesar: Quite often it appears that an enemy unit is fanatic and unbreakable and yet the unit is in fact panicked/broken and you are basically just wasting ammo. I'm fairly certain that if the unit graphic shows the enemy unit as upright and firing this is not the case. Especially if I am sustaining casualties. Anyways, still looking for the reasoning behind not including a "fanatic" icon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 my guess is that the designers felt that fanatism is an intangible and is not something to be counted on. it just happens... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Originally posted by zukkov: my guess is that the designers felt that fanatism is an intangible and is not something to be counted on. it just happens... Try to compare these events to real life... "Ah, Sergeant Yakov, I heard your squad is fanatic! We'll place you in front of the bunker line, so you'll be facing ten assaulting kraut squads." "No cost is too great!" "I will die for our cause!" "We must watch for the emeny!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Interesting debate because I can see a rational reason for both sides. The side for not setting all you fanatical squads all grouped together in the front is the most obvious reason to not let you know. But at the same time if you know a squad is fanatical you may use it in a,what has just been called, "gamey" way. I disagree that it would be gamey. If you use a fanatical squad to attack an area that other squads might not stand a chance attacking they are only acting fanatical...which they are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 There's nothing gamey in the use of fanatical squads as they are now: obviously when I notice that one of my Russkie rifle teams is holding back even when facing an entire platoon, then of course I figure that they are fanatical and plan my tactics on that assumption. The point is that I only know that they are fanatical once the heat is quite literally on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I don't believe troops "go fanatical" in the course of the game. The game parameters in setup set the overall degree of fanatacism for either Veteran or higher or for the entire side. Perhaps I'm wrong, the CM game engine is more subtle than the manual lets on. Does fanaticism make all that much difference in gameplay? I suppose it might in CMAK. Anything to keep them little cowards from surrendering at the drop of a hat! [ February 24, 2004, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon988 Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I saw a Green German squad go fanatical once while holding their ground against a very strong Soviet attack. The Marxist T-34's completely broke our lines and most of my force was killed, captured, or running. But I saw this little squad of 9 rookies hold off against a bombardment by a T-34 to the last man. They were killed, but I was astounded they never broke and in retrospect realized they must've been fanatical. Was really pretty cool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 "I was amazed to find my veteran troops crawling without orders towards the enemy - right through the cornfield. Several turns I cancelled movement but they did not care! One squad died. The other as a single man came back to the ridge and single-handedly turned back three squads --- I wonder if there is fanatic in the set-up." Part of an AAR of "A ranger last stand" on the CD. It was positively scary as the two squads kept in contact with the retreating Germans. I am positive that you should only know about fanatics after the event - after all that is the only way you can establish they are not to break in each second ..... history awards the accolade. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Pollock Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Now there's an idea. I can take or leave having fanatics labelled during the match, but it would be nice to see them labelled once the match is over. Anyone know if fanaticism carries over from one battle to the next during Operations or importation to a QB map [NRBH]? Originally posted by dieseltaylor: [snip]I am positive that you should only know about fanatics after the event - after all that is the only way you can establish they are not to break in each second ..... history awards the accolade. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugilist Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 This would make sense to me. I could see the possibility of fanatic troops ignoring orders, and so perhaps being either indistinguishable or not in command during gameplay, but it would definitely be nice to know if they were in fact fanatic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hankey Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I had a fanatic PSW crew once in CMBO. Damnedest thing too.. The PSW had been ambushed by an Ami .50 cal MG from about 50 m away. PSW was immobilized then finally knocked out. The crew then crawled on their bellies for about 30 m toward the MG nest, then sat up and shot the poop out of the MG'ers with a pistol. This was the Tac AI in charge of this mission. Anyway, they were eventually killed, but not before immobilizing the MG by taking the MG crew down to 1 man. AHHHH the heady days of CMBO and charging MG nests without a care... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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