Upgrade: Windows 98 FE to Windows XP: Worth It?

[Wally's World]

Howdy!

I'm just in the process of upgrading my motherboard to a faster and newer board (from an ASUS A7V8X-MX with a slow KM400 chipset to an Epox 8RDA+ board) and the technician just told me that my Windows 98 First Edition will not work properly on the newer NForce2 board. That Windows 98 does not want to recognize the add-on cards that I have installed and that the system will be unstable. He recommended I upgrade to Windows XP.

I have a Athlon 1800 CPU, 512 MB PC2700 RAM, GeForce3 Ti200 card and a Hercules Fortissimo 2 sound card.

The questions I have are:

1) It is worth it to upgrade to Windows XP?

2) Will the system run any slower or faster on XP as compared to Windows 98?

Many thanks to those who reply.

[junk2drive]

from apple iie to win95 to win98 to winme to xphome i wouldnt go back. i hate when someone with 98 or me asks me for help.

changing the radio station wont make your car go faster. xp probably will make some systems slower. 256ram min, happier with 512 133

[Schrullenhaft]

Win98SE is probably a tad bit faster than WinXP, though you may not notice too many differences on fast hardware.

WinXP is seeing the current driver development and older Windows OSes are somewhat an afterthought now; especially since Microsoft has pretty much discontinued support (to a certain extent) for Win 95, 98 & ME.

Windows 98 plays a bit 'fast and loose' with memory and processes. That makes it fast, but potentially unstable. WinXP on the other hand has a more rigorous memory management/process control architecture. XP's memory management requires more physical memory and is a bit slower than Win9x, but the end result is an OS that is quite a bit more stable (when an app or a driver misbehaves).

It would be my impression that Win98 would still work with your new hardware and that an upgrade to WinXP isn't mandatory. In and of itself Win98 isn't unstable, however drivers and apps are and they can cause Win98 to crash whereas in the same situation WinXP may be able to recover (and not kill other running processes/apps - but the misbehaving app will still 'go down').

With new and fast hardware I would recommend moving to WinXP (it supports USB 2.0, Serial ATA, etc., etc.). Only the oldest games and hardware (and an occasional app) will have problems with XP. TCP/IP is also implemented a bit better under WinXP compared to Win9x/ME. So if you have the cash, then the upgrade is probably worth it. However don't feel pressured into upgrading because the tech is telling you Win98 won't work - it's probably just a bit harder to install, but not incompatible.

[ April 14, 2004, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[Andrew Kulin]

Also keep in mind that you can get a reduced rate on the cost of XP should you purchase it with the motherboard. I just built a new system in February and I picked up XP Home (OEM) from the store I bought my motherboard from for $134 CDN. The same software (non-upgrade version-retail) would go for approx. $300 CDN. So there is a savings if you buy it at the same time as the motherboard (but I understand you must buy it when you buy the motherboard).

Also I'd go with XP - I found it a LOT less prone to crashes/BSOD than Win 98. (though if you have lots of "older" software you like to use you may find some are problematic with XP even when using compatibility modes - in particular (from my experience in my household) with any young kids educational software (for 2-6 yr olds so far) which seem to me to be less stringently coded (ex. some have the ability to install DX 5.0 over DX 9.0 - that's always fun so don't let the wife or kids install these games :mad: ))

[ April 15, 2004, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Kulin ]

[Hpt. Lisse]

I have had the same motherboard for the past year, and love it. Rock solid, even with a mild overclock of a Barton XP2500+ CPU. (The mobo will unlock your XP1800+ for some improvements.) Dump your soundcard, the on-board audio processor (MCP-T) is more powerful and capable than the Hercules Fortissimo 2 card.

512 MB is enough to support Win XP, so do it for your sanity's sake. Though I did originally run the Epox mobo with 98SE for a month or two before my conversion, so it can be done. Mobo comes with a firewall/anti-virus program that's decent, too. Remember than XP can be trimmed down, too, like 98, as to what runs in the background, etc.

[Wally's World]

Thanks very much for all replies. I appreciated them!

[Panzertruppe]

Note....if your a wargamer and enjoy many of the older games Win XP will not work with a lot of them like the Close Combat series.

[junk2drive]

i run cc2 and cc5 no problem winxp home, and have spww2 running also with a lot of work. imo once you play cm you wont go back anyway

[Jack Carr]

Originally posted by Wally's World:

Howdy!

I'm just in the process of upgrading my motherboard to a faster and newer board (from an ASUS A7V8X-MX with a slow KM400 chipset to an Epox 8RDA+ board) and the technician just told me that my Windows 98 First Edition will not work properly on the newer NForce2 board.

I am also in the process of such an upgrade. I am getting rid of an ASUS A7V8X and going to a DFI Infinity Ultra II with the same chipset that you mention, NForce2. I purchased not only the mainboard but a brand new Western Digital hard drive as well. The DFI board was dead on arrival. My reasons for upgrading were different from yours but the moral of my story is, "Stay away from DFI boards." After my nightmare of the DOA board, I started to do some research on this particular board and found that the DOA problem I experienced was not uncommon with this particular DFI board and DFI boards in general. I also found in a few reviews on NEWEGG.com that this board has a hard time seeing Western Digital hard drives. "Woe is me!"

Anyone out there have a DFI motherboard with a success story? I need a "pick me up".

As usual, Schrullenhaft's words of wisdom ring true. The only thing I can say is that Windows XP is a very stable operating system. I have two machines that are running XP Pro and I love it. Well...scratch that. I have one machine. I am waiting for a fully functional DFI Infinity Ultra II motherboard to get the second machine up and running. Please hurry up ZIPZOOMFLY!

Thanks everyone.

[ April 16, 2004, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Jack Carr ]

[Hpt. Lisse]

I've had great luck with Epox mobos, have had several in a row that never let me down. Usually pretty cheap, too. For high-end Gigabyte is my favorite.

The thing to remember w/NForce2 mobos is to get one that has the MCP-T (not just MCP) southbridge chipset. The "T" is what gives you serious on-board audio muscle.

[Jack Carr]

Just heard from ZIPZOOMFLY. They tested the motherboard I RMA'd back to them and it was, in fact, defective. Makes me feel a bit better anyway. I should have the new one early next week. If that's DOA I'll flip. Hopefully they will let me exchange it for a different brand mainboard.

[Jack Carr]

Originally posted by Hpt. Lisse:

I've had great luck with Epox mobos, have had several in a row that never let me down. Usually pretty cheap, too. For high-end Gigabyte is my favorite.

The thing to remember w/NForce2 mobos is to get one that has the MCP-T (not just MCP) southbridge chipset. The "T" is what gives you serious on-board audio muscle.

Thanks for the info. I just checked out the DFI board that I ordered and it does have the MCP-T chipset. I have a pretty good soundcard, Creative Labs 5.1 Soundblaster Gamer card. Is the onboard sound better than what the Creative Labs card can provide?

[Wally's World]

Actually my new Epox board has the onboard sound and it's actually very good. I downloaded the latest sound driver from the nVidia site. I think I'll use it instead of Hercules Fortissimo II card. By the way, omparing the new Epox 8RDA+ board with my old ASUS A7V8X-MX, I picked up about a 40% increase in my 3DMark2001 score.

As for Windows XP, I don't know if I like it any better than my old Windows 98. It almost seems slower to me not wtihstanding the increased 3DMark2001 score. Maybe I just have to get used to it.

[Jack Carr]

If anyone is interested, I just RMA'd the second DFI board back to ZIPZOOMFLY. I think DFI has some quality control issues.

I'm going to try a Chaintech mainboard with the same chipset, NForce2.

[markl]

Stick with windows 98SE. It wil run more games and does not have product activation.

I for one hope that the next version of combat mission is supported by Linux, as there is no way I will be using an operating system that supports product activation like XP where the manufacturer dictates how much I can tinker with my PC before I have to re register.

[Hpt. Lisse]

Jack -

I'd say the MCP-T is better, unless you are using an Audigy I - level soundcard or above. Remember, it's not just a quality issue (MCP-T decodes Dolby 5.1 in real time, etc) but a speed issue. I remember seeing a comparison chart (at Tom's Hardware, maybe?) that measured the framerate drop (CPU load) with some games using 5 different on-board audio setups. Nvidia's MCP-T chip was the winner by a huge margin.

There's some great links in this forum concerning what background applications can/should be turned off in WinXP to speed things up. It also can be configured to look alot like 98 did (which is the way I run it.) Everything with 98 is a pain in the ass (and I was a holdout, mind you) - instability with all USB devices, the "where's the driver" game, problems with addressing memory greater than 512MB, etc. Sure, this stuff can be worked around, if you want to spend the time and effort doing so. I'd rather use that time playing CMAK, man.

[Jack Carr]

Originally posted by Hpt. Lisse:

Jack -

I'd say the MCP-T is better, unless you are using an Audigy I - level soundcard or above. Remember, it's not just a quality issue (MCP-T decodes Dolby 5.1 in real time, etc) but a speed issue. I remember seeing a comparison chart (at Tom's Hardware, maybe?) that measured the framerate drop (CPU load) with some games using 5 different on-board audio setups. Nvidia's MCP-T chip was the winner by a huge margin.

There's some great links in this forum concerning what background applications can/should be turned off in WinXP to speed things up. It also can be configured to look alot like 98 did (which is the way I run it.) Everything with 98 is a pain in the ass (and I was a holdout, mind you) - instability with all USB devices, the "where's the driver" game, problems with addressing memory greater than 512MB, etc. Sure, this stuff can be worked around, if you want to spend the time and effort doing so. I'd rather use that time playing CMAK, man.

Herr Hauptmann,

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately the DFI board did not work out. I RMA'd the second one back to the vendor. I went with a Chaintech Apogee board that had the Nvidia Nforce2 chipset but with MCP only and not MCP-T. Not sure what the difference is but according to some things that have already been posted in this thread, the MCP-T is the one to have. I'll probably end up using my Creative Labs Audigy Gamer 5.1 card once I get the Chaintech board installed.

Thanks again!

[Jack Carr]

Chaintech board is great!

[Wally's World]

Jack:

How's the on-board sound? Are you going to use it or your Audigy Gamer?

[Jack Carr]

I'll be installing the Audigy sound card tonight. To be honest, I haven't even loaded the unified Nvidia drivers that the board comes with. I have a Chaintech GeForce Ti4600, which I loaded last night with the 56.55 drivers and an Audigy Gamer card that I'll be loading tonight.

The one thing I noticed immediately is that the boot-up time has been cut in half compared to the older ASUS board I had. I have yet to add some cards and drivers which will add some boot-up time but I'm not sure if it will double the boot-up time. It seems to boot in about half the time as my ASUS A7V8X did.

I'll be running the heck out of it for the remainder of this week to ensure that there are no stability problems. Tonight I'll be adding all the cards and getting it on-line to download all of the wonderfiul Microsft Windows XP Updates including DirectX 9b or whatever the latest and greatest DirectX is.

I also turned off all of the unnecessary services and went to the Windows Classic look without all that pretty look-and-feel Windows XP graphics to slow it down. The processors gonna all be for the bare-bones OS and Combat Mission.

So far, so good.

[ April 28, 2004, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Jack Carr ]

[Wally's World]

Jack:

What you're doing is almost exactly what I'm doing. Going from Windows 98 to XP has been quite the experience for me. I disabled my onboard sound and went with my Fortissimo II card. I just like the sound from this card. I am also using the 56.72 drivers for my GeForce3 Ti200 card. And yes, my boot-up time is really short compared to the old ASUS A7V8X I had.

I did load the latest nVidia unifed drivers and installed them, but then uninstalled the display and sound drivers from my machine in favour of individual display and sound drivers.

I was getting a lot of Blue Screen of Deaths for a while(especially at boot-up time), but I seem to have gotten this thing stablized thanks to advice from Schrullenhaft. One thing I did do was load the Aggresive BIOS settings instead of the Optimized settings. Read somewhere about someone else having BSODs with the Epox 8RDA+ board and by using the Aggresive settings, it seems to have gotten rid of the problem.

I upgraded to DirectX9.0b with no problems. Everything seems to running smooth now.

Good luck and keep me informed on how you're doing.

[Jack Carr]

I have a 56K dial-up connection at home so you can imagine what it was like to get all of the Windows Updates for a clean install of XP Pro including DirectX9.0b onto the machine. It took me all night and into the morning to get the operating system up to Microsoft's snuff. I have two more cards to install and I decided to install the hard drive from the original motherboard which is an identical make and model, Western Digital 80GB 8MB cache.

Does anyone know if this will slow the machine down with a second hard drive set up as a slave?

Runs great. Really like this Chaintech board. Everything came up like a dream. Thinking of overclocking it. I'll have to get the courage up to even make an attempt.

I went through two DFI boards that were DOA. ZIPZOOMFLY's technical department confirmed that both RMA'd DFI motherboards were the fanciest drink coasters they'd ever seen. It's a real shame. It's no fun going through an install like that twice only to find the brand new board is dead.

[Andrew Kulin]

Presuming that your old drive is being installed just because you can - for backups or overflow or whatever - then set your Operating System Drive as a Master on one channel and the ROM device that you will use most (if you have more than one to choose from) as a Master on the second channel. Then set secondary drives (i.e., less used) as slaves on either channel.

[Jack Carr]

Originally posted by Andrew Kulin:

Presuming that your old drive is being installed just because you can - for backups or overflow or whatever - then set your Operating System Drive as a Master on one channel and the ROM device that you will use most (if you have more than one to choose from) as a Master on the second channel. Then set secondary drives (i.e., less used) as slaves on either channel.

Thanks.