GreenAsJade Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 OK, this is the kind of bug you only get caught by once, but its a bug nonetheless. The setup phase lets you put trenches on pavement. When the game starts, they are gone! Nowhere. Now, I fully admit thinking "hmm, that's interesting, these guys must have had hydraulic digging equipment", but still, if it lets you put it there then it should keep it there. Otherwise its a complete suprise and waste. Further, you can get caught by this by accident if you are trying to put a trench as close as possible up against pavement. Hrmph... GaJ. [ March 05, 2004, 06:12 AM: Message edited by: GreenAsJade ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 I played with this a bit more, and discovered that it's only the portion of the trench that overlaps onto the pavement that disappears. This still constitutes a nasty suprise for someone who puts a trench wholey on a pavement. Also, how come trenches can go into buildings but not pavement? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbvr Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Hello one and all SAME SAME nice set up trench two 6pounder (one each end) and good old vickers in the middle game starts and whoops no trench lets just sit nice and exposed here in the middle of the street ... Happy hunting... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 GreenAsJade, no offense meant, but how about reading the game manual? Martin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Actually, you can put trenches in buildings, but you need to put the trench there before the building. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 It may say in the manual, but the editor does let you position the trench on pavement, when you cannot place it on rough, for example. That being said, if you couldn't place a trench over pavement then it would be nigh on impossible to place trenches in built up areas. It doesn't happen twice though... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Pilot Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 My CMAK manual says on pg. 57-58: "Trenches cannot be placed on unsuitable terrain (marsh, water, fords and in buildings), and remain on the map for the duration of the battle (or operation)." Maybe it mentions somewhere else that roads eliminate trenches, but I couldn't find it in my manual. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbvr Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Hello one and all... I may be wrong but my local Council seem to have no Probs with putting trenchs in the middle of the roads/pavement norm appear out the blue on my way to/from work happy hunting... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 6, 2004 Author Share Posted March 6, 2004 Originally posted by Moon: GreenAsJade, no offense meant, but how about reading the game manual? Martin Fair comment, but I am slightly offended because I'm one of those people who _does_ read the manual. BUT I don't get it out just before I place a unit in every new possible location, just to find out if that is really allowed. This is the whole point of the setup editor giving you a red line and a ding when you try to place something somewhere where it is not going to be allowed. I would have been quite happy if half a trench overlapping onto a pavement disappeared IF and ONLY IF I got a warning red line when I try to position the centre of the trench onto the pavement. Finally, since you have invoked the manual, perhaps you would like to provide a reference to the place where this particular issue is covered? The irony is that the manual section on Trenches and Foxholes doesn't even mention roads/pavements as unsuitable terrain (as pointed out above). Thanks everyone else for your support on this matter. GaJ. <insert 'somewhat miffed' Graemlin here> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 6, 2004 Author Share Posted March 6, 2004 Originally posted by flamingknives: It may say in the manual, but the editor does let you position the trench on pavement, when you cannot place it on rough, for example. That being said, if you couldn't place a trench over pavement then it would be nigh on impossible to place trenches in built up areas. It doesn't happen twice though... I think that placing trench overlapping pavement (and disappearing in the overlap) is fine. It's the complete absence of warning that it's going to disappear that is a nasty feature. As I said, if it went red with the centre of the trench on the pavement it would be a massive improvement... GaJ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAsta_KFC Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 You know the other day, I think I discovered a bug, but forgot to save the game. Was playing a QB and while assaulting a building I was surprised to see AP mines inside a building on the ground floor... I'll see if I can reproduce it again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Pollock Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 This might've been placed by the scenario designer prior to pasting in the building....oh...a QB...nevermind...unless it was on an imported map :confused: Originally posted by MAsta_KFC: You know the other day, I think I discovered a bug, but forgot to save the game. Was playing a QB and while assaulting a building I was surprised to see AP mines inside a building on the ground floor... I'll see if I can reproduce it again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abteilung Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 The elevation of the terrain tiles on which trenches and adjacent buildings are placed affect their appearance once the game gets underway. For instance, you cannot have two tall heavy buildings adjacent and on different elevation levels simultaneously. One will not be drawn. I'd wager that trenches are the same way, as I've seen parts of trenches truncated due to elevation. Takes a keen eye and view level 1 to catch it sometimes prior to commencing hostilities. Hope this helps! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 6, 2004 Author Share Posted March 6, 2004 I don't think this is the explanation: units that are in the bit of the trench that disappears on the crest of a hill are still in a trench. Units sitting on a pavement where a trench was placed are sitting on a pavement... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abteilung Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 I see. I never placed troops in an undrawn trench section to find out. Thanks for the info and sorry to have mis-informed you. Insofar as pavement goes, it would seem to be a rather arduous task to dig a viable trench through pavement. It's not something troops can do with hand tools in a timely fashion anyway. If you've ever tried to break pavement, it's not easy at all, even with a mattock. IMO, it would take special units, i.e. engineers, with the right tools to do it. I'd say there's lots of gravel under the pavement itself (albeit I'm not well versed in ground preparation). Combine that with a little clay-like soil and it takes a veritable goliath of a man to dig through it. I recall digging up a part of a freind's yard while helping him find a leak in his water main leading to the house. It required tearing up part of an asphalt driveway. There were rocks, clay, and lots of roots running all over the place under the asphalt. It took 2 days of digging (back breaking labor, I was very sore afterwards!) to get deep enough to get to the water pipe. It was a good 18-20 inches (about 50-60cm) under the pavement. :mad: On a side note, tanks can be dug into paved areas. I once had great luck with a keyholed Matilda II which was dug into an alley in a large town engagement. [ March 06, 2004, 02:31 AM: Message edited by: Abteilung ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 6, 2004 Author Share Posted March 6, 2004 Originally posted by Abteilung: I see. I never placed troops in an undrawn trench section to find out. Thanks for the info and sorry to have mis-informed you. Insofar as pavement goes, it would seem to be a rather arduous task to dig a viable trench through pavement. It's not something troops can do with hand tools in a timely fashion anyway. If you've ever tried to break pavement, it's not easy at all, even with a mattock. IMO, it would take special units, i.e. engineers, with the right tools to do it. I'd say there's lots of gravel under the pavement itself (albeit I'm not well versed in ground preparation). Combine that with a little clay-like soil and it takes a veritable goliath of a man to dig through it. I recall digging up a part of a freind's yard while helping him find a leak in his water main leading to the house. It required tearing up part of an asphalt driveway. There were rocks, clay, and lots of roots running all over the place under the asphalt. It took 2 days of digging (back breaking labor, I was very sore afterwards!) to get deep enough to get to the water pipe. It was a good 18-20 inches (about 50-60cm) under the pavement. :mad: On a side note, tanks can be dug into paved areas. I once had great luck with a keyholed Matilda II which was dug into an alley in a large town engagement. I agree. I have no quibble with whether or not trenches in pavement are allowed. My issue is with the interface not warning me that they are not allowed... GaJ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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