Blah Blah Blah Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I have seen several instances where the AI leaves a substaincial portion of it's resources sitting at the starting line. Two case in points are 'another hill' and 'the tutorial'. In 'another hill' as the Germans the allies left ALL of the jeeps and men at the starting line. The only three units to move forward were the Sherman and the two empty jeeps (side gripe here; the lack of a 2nd person in the jeep is very decieving, and an issue when using extreme fog of war. When this jeep is less than 50 metres away, even in extreme surely I should be able to see if there is 1 or 2 guys?!). Playing the tutorial as the Itailians :cool: the Allies repeatedly left halve of thier resources at the start. I have what I see as other issues with the AI but these are for another thread. Any advice and information appreciated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 The AI can't handle embarked troops. If it is assigned any, they sit out the battle unless forced to dismount by gunfire. (In CMBB at least) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blah Blah Blah Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 Originally posted by flamingknives: The AI can't handle embarked troops. If it is assigned any, they sit out the battle unless forced to dismount by gunfire. (In CMBB at least) Yes you are right. I played the yanks in the 'another hill' and at the end of the battle there was the MG42 and the panzer duds still tucked away in their car at the top of the map, as well as another set of soldiers. I am quit disheartend with the AI, has it always been this way? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Originally posted by Blah Blah Blah: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flamingknives: The AI can't handle embarked troops. If it is assigned any, they sit out the battle unless forced to dismount by gunfire. (In CMBB at least) Yes you are right. I played the yanks in the 'another hill' and at the end of the battle there was the MG42 and the panzer duds still tucked away in their car at the top of the map, as well as another set of soldiers. I am quit disheartend with the AI, has it always been this way? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Tittles Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 The same problem was in CMBB. Troops just sit in trucks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Originally posted by CMplayer: One thing that would be cool is if it were possible to script attacking behaviors for scenarios as in TacOps (although even there, normal users don't have access to the function). Until such time, play human opponents. OK Then let me just fantasize here a bit here.... Suppose the AI can play the AI.... Suppose it was possible for scenario designers to script attacking behaviors for scenarios.... Suppose Two players scripted actions and "what -ifs" and SOP's for two sides in the same scenario..... Catch my drift?????? Suppose in the NEXT BIG THING, CMX2 that two players could play head to head (virtually) and let their scripted AI for each side battle it out. Take a scenario and each player does his best to script the AI for that Side then hit GO NOW this is "sort" of Doable as it is now. Ever tried this: you need two computers hooked up via TCP/IP after each player sets up and clicks go Each player will give the orders for the ENTIRE length of the battle and then step away and watch. Both players give orders only for first turn and then set the timer to 1 Minute and it GO and just watch what they do. No you can't do any delays and you can't do any counter attacks, both sides just go straight at each other but if you can let them go for the whole scenario and sit back and watch what happens. Now what if you could script the AI and sit back and watch your AI battle it out with your opponent's AI?? I would think that would be FUN and as far as I know it might be a FIRST as a feature for a war game! Hey BFC.... Come on! break through to the NEXT level and let us play AI vs AI via scripted actions and SOPs. This would allow scenario designers to plan and script scenarios that would indeed be challenging if NOT impossible to win the first time if it were done well he he..... what do you think? -tom w [ December 16, 2003, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haohmaru Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Argh!!!!! Not another "AI is deficient" thread!!!!! Please, please, whatever you do, DO NOT request that BFC make any radical changes to how their ai works, even more important, do not tell them it is easy or "doable" :eek: believe me, casualties will start coming thick and fast at this rate... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Hmmmm, sounds like a chat board veteran. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by CMplayer: One thing that would be cool is if it were possible to script attacking behaviors for scenarios as in TacOps (although even there, normal users don't have access to the function). Yes, I agree that scripting should be permitted to make interesting scenarios. It's the only way to get a realistic battle going with the AI. Does anybody know why this is not included in CMAK? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haohmaru Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by MikeyD: Hmmmm, sounds like a chat board veteran. Nope, check my profile, I've only made a handful of posts in a couple of years But I was involved in a discussion about this on the CMBB forum a couple of months ago, it was ugly. By the way, CMBB's scenario briefings usually told you what the best side to play against the computer was and I presume CMAK is the same ( don't have it yet ) so you should take its advice and leave scenarios that it cant handle to human opponents 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blah Blah Blah Posted December 18, 2003 Author Share Posted December 18, 2003 Originally posted by Haohmaru: Argh!!!!! Not another "AI is deficient" thread!!!!! Please, please, whatever you do, DO NOT request that BFC make any radical changes to how their ai works, even more important, do not tell them it is easy or "doable" :eek: believe me, casualties will start coming thick and fast at this rate... So is that we hide our heads in the sand? Or did I miss something again! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Originally posted by Lawyer: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by CMplayer: One thing that would be cool is if it were possible to script attacking behaviors for scenarios as in TacOps (although even there, normal users don't have access to the function). Yes, I agree that scripting should be permitted to make interesting scenarios. It's the only way to get a realistic battle going with the AI. Does anybody know why this is not included in CMAK? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 YES "I do hope that they put it into the next version of the engine though. The game could become an order of magnitude better for solo play." Lets GO with that I like this part: "The (NEXT) game could become an order of magnitude better for solo play."!!! Yes it could and it should include the option to play AI vs AI so two players could release their scripted units loose on each other and sit back and see what happens. Now THAT is not what CMx is now or has ever been BUT for the scenario designers that want to test various options and tactics and for the FUN of it a scripted AI vs. Scripted AI play option should be available when they debut the NEXT big thing 1-2 years from now (I can see it in the late summer of 2005) It should have a user friendly interface for scripting purposes. Yes it will be somewhat hard to master and yes it may be a ugly and tedious as the map editor is now but we are Talking about GROGS here you know! folks who played ASL and Tobruck FOR FUN! Tobruk the board game and Iron Ships and Wooden Men HAD to have been the MOST laborious book keeping nightmares of any those type of games but hardy Grogs and dedicated gamers mastered that bookkeeping and ALL those rules. So a labourious and even tedious scripted editor for the AI for scenario design will MORE than be welcomed and embraced by the hardy on this forum you can be SURE! BFC please, consider having the AI scripting editor User Interface PROFFESSIONALLY designed, developed and tested. (please ) -tom w Originally posted by CMplayer: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lawyer: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by CMplayer: One thing that would be cool is if it were possible to script attacking behaviors for scenarios as in TacOps (although even there, normal users don't have access to the function). Yes, I agree that scripting should be permitted to make interesting scenarios. It's the only way to get a realistic battle going with the AI. Does anybody know why this is not included in CMAK? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWombat Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 It's understandable how difficult it is to do good AI for wargames--I've been playing them on computers for nearly 20 years now and I've seen pretty much every variation of attempt at doing it right, and witnessed only limited success. But while it's certainly true that playing humans is the best challenge, it's not much comfort for many of us who often just want to fire up a game after work or on a Saturday morning or on a day off, at our own pace and without the pressure of having to turn around turns for someone on the other end. So yes, it's not terribly useful to complain and yes PBEM is the way to go ultimately but I have a wealth of sympathy for people who want the AI to do better--in any game, not just this one. Overall the computer opponent in the CM series is pretty fun to play agains, but as noted you have to pick your battles. The issue with embarked troops is just one more reason to pick the attacker when you are playing the AI I guess EDIT: Oh and despite what it says I've been around here since the dawn of CMBO but have repeatedly lost my login and password and keep having to regenerate myself as a new entity. Wish I could do that in RL.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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