Mies Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 I would just like to mention the book by E.H. Brongers (ISBN : 90 6045 365 4) called "Grebbelinie 1940" out of the Hollandia Pocket series published in 1971. It describes in detail the battle that was waged in Holland in May 1940 with the focus as the title suggest on the defense of the Grebbeline. It uses official war diaries as well as eye witness accounts. It also contains some maps some detailed down to compagnie level wich could make excellent scenario material. For all the Dutch speakers here check this link. In addition to that I also found a reference in the series "Nederland en de Tweede Wereldoorlog" by Waanders Uitgevers a series published in 1989. In part3, page 74, it mentions the envolvement of the SS Standarte Gross Deutschland during the battle in Zeeland. At least that is what the accompanying text to a photograph taken by "Bilderberichter Zschaekel" says. Below is a good overview of the Dutch defensive lines just before the German invasion on the 10th of May 1940. I took this from the same series as described before. This image was taken from part 1, page 25. Edit : Cause I can't type. [ March 30, 2004, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Mies ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted March 29, 2004 Author Share Posted March 29, 2004 Its starting to look like some of the talented Dutch speakers will need to scenarioize those days in May! Anything from the German side? German Army Grogs? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Hmm, well, the Grossdeutschland did loan a battalion out for an airlanding assault on the Peel Line - nicely shown in the map above. Advanced Squad Leader did a scenario about it, but guess what, they got the name wrong, too and called them SS Regiment Deutschland. To reiterate: Infantry Regiment Grossdeutschland was an Army formation; they fought mainly in France (their big battle was at Stonne), but the III Bataillon did see action at the Peel line. Their airlanding was in Feiseler Storchs if memory serves. The dudes who fought at the Causeway were SS troops, not sure of the actual designation but SS Standarte Deutschland may be correct. No "Gross" in the title. A lot of bad history floated around in the 1960s that got the wild idea GD was part of the SS. Looks like one of the sources mentioned above (dated 1971) helped perpetuate that myth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I have been searching through my collection in search of the identity of the SS units involved in the attack through Groningen and Friesland to capture the Isselmeer causeway, so far without success. I am sure that my copy of GDW's "Fall of France" gives them at least a tentative identification, but it hasn't turned up yet. To the best of my recollection, it was a ragtag Kampfgrup composed of some motorised infantry, motorised artillery, and some odds and ends including some AA, all amounting to about a regiment in strength but in fighting power considerably less than that due to poor training and leadership. I also have a vague recollection that the Cavalry Division (Heer) was involved on this part of the front, but I may be misremembering that bit. I'll keep searching and if anything turns up I'll post it. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 According to Men At Arms (I know, I know ), SS-Standarte 1 "Deutschland" was formed and served in the Anschluss in 1938. The number "1" was dropped when the honour title "Deutschland" was adopted. SS-Standarte "Deutschland" served, with 3 other SS Standarten, in the Verfügungsdivision (so named by the spring of 1940 but assembled in October 1939). This division later became Division "Das Reich". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 So where is the material? To say the least scenario material is lacking! Any active duty or reserve Dutch military around?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 Hans, could you email me please? Jon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 1, 2004 Author Share Posted April 1, 2004 Sent 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 1, 2004 Author Share Posted April 1, 2004 Dutch speakers could you take a look at the following translation: First my translation and then the original Dutch, can you let me know if I'm close! Waalhaven was the home base of Dutch 3rd JaVa (Jachtvliegtuig Afdeeling) or Hunting Squadron. It was equipped with 11 Fokker G-1 Fighter Cruisers (nicknamed destroyers). Their mission was to protect the Netherland’s largest harbour, Rotterdam. The airport itself was defended by a battalion of the Jaeger regiment. Two of the three companies had been set up outside the airport. E company was stationed on the field along with a mixed company of AAA guns. Their were in total six heavy and nineteen light machine guns. By the main building two light armor vehicles had been supplied by the Army. The reserve amounted to two platoons. Grenades had not been distributed unfortunately. Telephone connections were also missing. With the being of the war looming fighting positions were begun on the 8th of May. On 10 May, only one concrete and two wooden bunkers were finished. Another difficulty was the fact that Waalhaven was surrounded on three sides by a two meters high fence. Considering the absolutely flat terrain troops outside of the airport could not see what was happening on the airfield. Waalhaven was de thuisbasis van 3 JAVA. De met 11 G-1s uitgeruste vliegafdeling. Gelegen aan de grootste Rotterdamse haven werd het vliegveld verdedigd door een bataljon van het regiment jagers. Twee van de drie compagnieën waren opgesteld buiten het vliegveld. Eén compagnie kon, samen met een compagnie mitrailleurs op het landingsterrein vuren. Dat waren in totaal zes zware en negentien lichte mitrailleurs. Bij het hoofdgebouw stonden nog twee lichte pantserwagens. De reserve bedroeg een man of tachtig. Handgranaten waren niet uitgereikt. Telefonische verbindingen ontbraken. Met het maken van gevechtsopstellingen was op 8 mei pas begonnen. Op 10 mei waren slechts één betonnen bunker en twee, kleinere kazematten beschikbaar voor de opstelling van de mitrailleurs. Erger was dat Waalhaven aan drie kanten (n,o,z) door een meer dan twee meter hoge schutting werd omgeven. Buiten het vliegveld opgestelde troepen konden dus niet zien wat er op het vliegveld gebeurde. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mies Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 Couldn't have done it better myself! Mies 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 1, 2004 Author Share Posted April 1, 2004 Dang, having that Dutch girlfriend finally paid off 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 From what I've seen of Dutch girls, I would have expected the rewards to be both more immediate and tangible than that. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirkbogie Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hi guys. Just joined the forum and came across your items on the Dutch in 1940. If anyone is interested my friends and I have been changing all the bmp files in CMBB so that you can use the Romanians as Dutch. Also changed all the flags and unit icons. We have done a few scenarios based on 1940 Dutch vs Germans and it seems to work ok. I wouldn't say it was perfect but it puts a whole new angle on playing Combat Mission. Anyone else waiting on a Fall of France/Low countries version of the game? I've managed to get all the files into two folders...one has all the "dutch" items and one is all the original Romanian items. That way I can just swap and reload between the two. The only problem I can see is the size of the folders....one is 7mb, the other 9mb. If there is any interest we may see about putting it on a website somewhere as a CMMOS file. By the way....how do you post pictures? I have quite a few screen captures showing the "dutch" in action if someone could tell me how to do it. Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by dirkbogie: Anyone else waiting on a Fall of France/Low countries version of the game?Yes. By the way....how do you post pictures? I have quite a few screen captures showing the "dutch" in action if someone could tell me how to do it.First you have to post the pictures on a standard web site in the usual way. Then you can post a link here in various ways. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertram Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hans "Eén compagnie" is translated by "One compagny", not by "E compagny" (the Dutch used numbers for the units, not characters, but in this case it just means "one of the -"). The "kazematten" are not wooden bunkers (there were generally no wooden bunkers in the Netherlands, the ground was to wet, and concrete was as easy to come by as wood logs, if not easier in the west). Kazematten are either fortified (machinegun) placements (probably in this case) or pillboxes. Michael My standard (Dutch) work on the WW2 gives as the attackers at the IJsselmeer causeway just the 1st Cavalry division (part on horses, part on bicycles). Their heavy artillery was stuck at Winschoten (near the German border), as it was rail bound and the rail bridge there was blown. They had some air supprot, but thos could not damage the (concrete) defensive works. 5 "detachments" (whatever that might be) on bicycles tried to attack, but got nowhere (they had to advance along a 3 mile long, bare road on top of the dike). The divisional artillery tried to bombard the fortfications next day, but was in turn bombarded by naval guns (the gunboat Johan Maurits van Nassau with 3x 15 cm guns) and had to withdraw. German air support failed to hit the boat. Next day the airforce once again tried to hit the defenders (with Stuka's this time) but didn't accomplish anything (rather surprising, as these bunkers were nowhere as impressive as the Maginot line). Next day The Netherlands surrendered, after the German Airforce bombed Rotterdam, and thretened to do the same to other towns. The defensive works at the Afsluitdijk are still there, and are open to visits) Bertram Nb.: this is mostly from Dr. L. de Jong, Het Koninkrijk der Nederlanden in de Tweede Wereldoorlog, part 3. It is the "official Dutch war history", but stronger on political issues then on military detail. Even though lots of detail is given the militairy facts seem to have been checked less at the source then the other details. I think this also accounts for the name confusion earlier (which came from the same book). Bertram [ April 13, 2004, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Bertram ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 13, 2004 Author Share Posted April 13, 2004 Thanks for the notes. Waalhaven was completed (the scenario) but is being held in reserve due to a slight problem - it's rather dull and unbalanced....I gonna have to think about it..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by Hans: Waalhaven was completed (the scenario) but is being held in reserve due to a slight problem - it's rather dull and unbalanced...Heh. My take is that most historical battles were unbalanced, sometimes very much so. That's why the arrows kept moving across the map. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 14, 2004 Author Share Posted April 14, 2004 True Michael I may up the forces involved in the counter-attack, the main problem is the start. You have a very flat piece of terrain (the airfield is over 1 kilometer in every direction, containing an absolutely flat, featureless grass field)The green Dutch in their historic fixed positions tend to slaughter those who land there - despite history! I'll also look at including it in the movement and fight for the bridge into Rotterdamm which was the Paras second objective. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Hans can you send me the battle? Maybe I can give you some advice on what to change.... Always good if someone else takes a look first Henk btw I found a webpage which explains the military symbols unfortunately its in dutch only. http://www.grebbeberg.nl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Hans, Have you considered treating the already in place but surprised defenders as reinforcements randomly arriving over a fairly short period and in well defined locations? Seems to me that this would allow you to at least semimodel the initial chaos without further degrading the core Dutch morale. You could also put some predetermined fraction of the force into pinned or shocked state to delay effective response--with or without moving some units away from their HQs. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Michael Grossdeutschland did another air assault (Operation 'Niwi' by Fieseler Storch (tactically great, operationally bad) in the Ardennes. 10. and 11. GD. They needed 100 Storch planes for that. Are you sure they used a whole battalion in the Netherlands (that would need about 200 Fieseler Storch at least)??? Also, that would only leave 1.5 battalions to go on to Stonne. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 14, 2004 Author Share Posted April 14, 2004 Stoffel-large web site any oob or tactical maps in that pool of Dutch? Yes, I'll send it to you, let me see what shape it is in. Old scenario number 146 has been played in the holding pen. I had deleted a number of the reinforcements on both sides and was reducing and redoing the German reinforcements. Johm, thanks for the ideas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 yes there are the maps are in the BIBLIOTHEEK section. they cover the entire defensive line, for both days of the german attack on the line. Send me the links to the maps you are interested in and I will do a translation for you. looking forward to the scenario 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 15, 2004 Author Share Posted April 15, 2004 Stoffel, have sent you an email That site has a lot of information. What area or place could we look at for a small action (smaller than a battalion say)? I was thinking up North might have some opportunities? With my very bad Danish and German I can get a sense of these materials but it would be easier if you could make a suggestion on a likely place to start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 Well the Germans broke through near Rhenen which was defended by a company of troops. We could take that part of the battle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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