getting that 251-16 to fire flame

[Cabe Booth]

I have always had the hardest time getting the 251-16 to fire its flamethrower, especially since you cannot give it the hunt command.

I have targeted area under 55m and it does nothing. I know in other games I had it fire often, but in this game it just fires its mg. What is the secret? any why can't CMAK/BB be consistent on vehicle flamethrower fire orders? I figured out the croc and the Russian tank just flames everything like crazy

[costard]

Maybe the 251-16 was pointing directly at the target, the forward machine gun taking it on, the flame units unable to swing around?

I've only had success with the highly mobile flame units in situations where they come in to a firefight fast, and clean it up. If you put an experienced crew into the middle of a situation, you can expect them to make the correct decisions most of the time. The morale effects of the flame give a relatively quick pin / flee and multiple units (say an enemy platoon in range, and a platoon of your own infantry starting the fight) can be dealt with effectively, at least, when you have the two gun halftrack and a fair dose of luck. He can be knocked out quickly by two AT rifles at good range tho' - easy to lose one without it having contributed.

[Broompatrol]

It seems 16's won't or can't use flame on a target directly in front at over 40m. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

They seem to cheerfully use the FT at the 30m-40m regardless of the aspect of target. But, they are more likely to use the FT if the target is somewhere between 15 and 60 degrees from the front.

Other than that I am not sure of your crew's reluctance. Are you engaging vehicles or infantry?

The 16's will also back away from a percieved AT threat (bazookas, .50, etc.)pretty fast.

[Cabe Booth]

i am firing at rubble with hidden troops

[von Lucke]

I just ran a little test:

Two 251/16's --- one Reg and one Vet --- set up 44m from a small house, and a patch of rubble, respectively. Angle of attack was 0 degrees (i.e; directly forward).

I set them both to area fire, and hit GO. Within the first 5 seconds they both let loose MG and flame on the targets, and continued to do so throughout the turn. Next turn, I had the gunner button up, and they still unleashed firey death on the targets, no problem.

Dunno what to tell you. Are you out of napalm? The MG and flamer have seperate ammo counts. Try the Area Fire function? The Target key (T); gives you a yellow line.

[Heinrich505]

Cabe Booth,

I'd concur with von Lucke. I just recently had a flame halftrack come sweeping in like the cavalry. Russian troops were in a building, blasting away at my troops across the street. I drove the halftrack in, somewhat recklessly, as the situation was dire and the Soviets were massing for an assault. The halftrack immediately opened up with the MG, but as it got about 45 meters away, and at about a 30 degree angle from the side, it started flaming away with abandon. After wiping out most of the threat in the building, the surviving Russians hid, so only stars were visible. I then gave the halftrack an area fire command, now at about 40 meters out, thinking they'd just fire the MG. But Nooooooo, they started hosing the area with gouts of flame, for the entire turn, until all possible targets threw their hands up in surrender. I can't recall if they were veterans or regulars though.

Heinrich505

[Cabe Booth]

well i have had off and on moments with them, i had a CMBB map where it was hitting pretty good then on a random spawn CMAK map one had the range but a low wall kept me from getting closer finally i drove all the way around the wall back to my target and it fired. Then game I have right now I have moved him up from the 54m position to around 40m with 15 degree angle to the target and an area fire order, so I will report back.

I can say that I have seen mine in the past fire directly ahead, so that is not an issue, but I guess the range as reported in the units stats in game are wrong.

Those Russian flame tanks though, wow, now that's range, not to mention a ton of ammo

[Cabe Booth]

here is a test I ran I think it will help everyone from here on out. MAX range is 49 dead on.

yes I realize i misspelled flamethrower, sue me.

[John Kettler]

Cabe Booth,

Great stuff! May I suggest you register at WaW and post this to the CM Tactics & Training section here.

Am certain the gamers there will be grateful for such useful information.

http://tinyurl.com/2fpk25

Regards,

John Kettler

[Cabe Booth]

did so, thanks for the tip

[John Kettler]

Cabe Booth,

You're welcome! WaW's quite a CM resource.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Wicky]

Not tested so take it for what it's worth.

Used a wasp in a PBEM to destroy in an ambush a German AFV out of max range by 10 or 20m using area target as close as range would permit. I tentatively conclude the effective range of flame vehicles are slightly more than stated due to 'flame splash' or sumfink.

[dieseltaylor]

Great thread. Is this where I say "BF fix it or sumfink"

[Philippe]

Does anyone know what the range on those things actually was in real life? There may not be anything in need of fixing.

[John Kettler]

Philippe,

If you're talking about Wasps, did you see this great thread from Tips & Tricks?

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001555;p=1

If the question was on the 251/16, Bellona's GERMAN ARMY SEMI-TRACKED VEHICLES 1939-45: M. Schuetzenpanzerwagen Sd.Kfz 251, compiled by Chamberlain and Doyle, on page 20 lists the range of the main flame projectors as "about 35 meters," varying with the wind. What the game doesn't model is the auxiliary projector, which can be used while dismounted with the 251/16 in cover. Hose length was 10 meters.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Philippe]

Thanks for that, John.

What I'm getting out of this is that having a flamethrowing vehicle squirt liquid fire for fifty meters is probably reasonable.

I wonder if the liquid rain at maximum range (whatever it actually was) was all that effective. The liquid rain of golden droplets reminds me a bit of standing too close to the landing zone of the discharge of a roman candle -- more unpleasant than dangerous. I wonder if that accounts for some of the discrepancies in the longer Wasp ranges (i.e. are people distinguishing maximum squirting range -- painful droplets -- from maximum effective range -- total incineration.

At times like this it would have been useful to be more interested in fire trucks as a kid.

By the way, does the game behave the same if you target as opposed to just letting the tac ai do its thing? Will the tac ai flame to 49 meters and after that use machine guns, or is it more aggressive in the hosing department?

[John Kettler]

Philippe,

If you want a better feel for life on the sharp end in a flamethrower tank unit, try Wilson's FLAME THROWER. He commanded Churchill Crocodiles for the British, sometimes in support of Canadian forces.

http://tinyurl.com/3bmzrk

In it, you will learn of capabilities not modeled in the game, such as firing a wet shot (unignited flame fuel) to intimidate into surrender the now fuel soaked foe and position, or the smashing power of the jet itself against light structures.

As for your droplets, we're talking about something that clings and burns fiercely, rather than something that happens to land on one and is readily brushed off.

Regards,

John Kettler

[z-warfare]

Originally posted by John Kettler:

...As for your droplets, we're talking about something that clings and burns fiercely, rather than something that happens to land on one and is readily brushed off.

Seconded... It seems to me that even a small droplet might burn you badly enough to make you a casualty... It wouldn't just be some first-degree stuff.

[John Kettler]

z-warfare,

Imagine, if you will, a quarter or dollar sized blob of extremely hot grease--which is on fire! You already know how nasty a simple, tiny kitchen grease spatter can be, so I leave it to you to estimate what exponent to apply to the fire blob.

Regards,

John Kettler