FredKors Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Hi! If you buy a plane armed with bombs, the behaviour you expect is: First attack - Bombing Attack 2 - Strafe with guns Attack 3 - Strafe with guns and so on... (the number of attacks depends on the type of the plane and other factors) If you play my Test Scenario 100 times, 100 times you will get the above behaviour (this is correct). NEVER you wil get TWO or MORE BOMBINGS!!! BUT everytime you break the sequence of air-attacks SAVING and RELOADING the game: First attack - Bombing SAVE THE GAME RELOAD THE GAME Attack 2 - BOMBING (with high probability (70%?)) Attack 3 - Strafe with guns and so on... ... the plane 'forgets' his previous bombing(s)! So with a lone plane you could have 2 or more bombings. First bombing Second bombing This bug is present in CMBB too and affect not only scenarios but also PBEM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tondu Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I always wondered why two bombs had to be dropped simultaneously. Why not one at a time every once and a while? Perhaps some planes had that ability. Maybe not all. Another improvement for CMx2? --that is IF it will be about WWII. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredKors Posted December 8, 2004 Author Share Posted December 8, 2004 There is no hope to have an official answer, right? It seems to me this is a relevant problem... :confused: :confused: :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucho Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 What planes, what bomb-load did it carry? Stukas could release the main bomb and the wing bombs separatelly for example. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macphail Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 im playing a scenario now, where i have air support. im 12 turns in, and recall hearing the planes, and bombs dropping several times. i lost count. but with all the confusion, artillery, smoke, screaming etc... i could not tell where the bombs fell, or if they killed anything. pretty sure they didnt get any of my stuff though, so thats alright. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrrich0000 Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I always wondered why two bombs had to be dropped simultaneously. Why not one at a time every once and a while? Perhaps some planes had that ability. Maybe not all.I have been told this is to keep the aircraft in trim. (I am talking about wing loaded bombs, not centerline here) If you drop one bomb off one wing, the other wing becomes (relatively) heavier and causes the aircraft to want to roll to that side. This may render the aircraft uncontrollable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Who cares? I guess you're worried that your plane is going to drop that second lot of bombs on your troops as well as the first one, is that it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimthane Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I think the point here was that if you do a save the plane seems to be getting a free reload of bombs that it oughtn't. It would be unfortunate if that is the case - everyone in the know gets a free bombing run (more than one if you keep resaving?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Hey, you owe me a turn, what are you doing posting here when you should be doing that?! My point was if you are playng with planes you get what you deserve, and any "advantage" from a free load of bombs is equally likely to be a disadvantage when they land on your own troops! I guess the real question is "does this reset behaviour happen each time a PBEM turn is exchanged anyhow?" If it does happen, then everyone playing PBEM gets the free bombs. (TCP/IP people can't "cheat" by saving and reloading). If the PBEM turn saving process does not cause this behaviour, then it's true that some unscrupulous person could generate themselves some more bombs. But who really cares? You hardly need more bombs to beat me, and I need more than a few bombs to beat you. It's hardly the most earth-shattering cheat opportunity... that's really what I waas trying to say, tongue in cheek... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredKors Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by Grimthane: I think the point here was that if you do a save the plane seems to be getting a free reload of bombs that it oughtn't. It would be unfortunate if that is the case - everyone in the know gets a free bombing run (more than one if you keep resaving?) Uao, there is a light in the dark universe! With a lone Me109 (in CMBB) I was able to get 5 bombings (one for each strafe) in my tests! This seems to be caused only by saving/reloading (normal PBEM is not affected). But if your PBEM opponent saves/reloads the game... IMHO this bug makes completely unuseful Air Support... (overcast forever! ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_no_one Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 If it ruins PBEM then why did you have to tell everyone?To my knowledge no one knew of this until now.Now CMBB is crap.CMAK will have a chance of getting it fixed in a patch,but we all dont have/want CMAK.Thanks alot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leopard_2 Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Relax, dude. Keeping quiet about loopholes doesn't make them go away, it just reserves the knowledge of such a bug to the cheaters. Now you know it's possible, and might get the hint if you're being cheated so you don't play against a cheater again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredKors Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by no_one: ... To my knowledge no one knew of this until now... Your knowledge is limited. There are others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I agree with GreenAsJade. Air support being what it is on the CM battlefield, those "free" bombing runs are as likely (some would say more likely!) to target your own troops as the enemy. Not a big worry for me. But then I seldom find myself playing with the kind of people who would waste their time for such dubious advantage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tondu Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by Leopard_2: Relax, dude. Keeping quiet about loopholes doesn't make them go away, it just reserves the knowledge of such a bug to the cheaters. Now you know it's possible, and might get the hint if you're being cheated so you don't play against a cheater again. If this is happening automatically and no one can control aircraft, how can his opponent possibly be cheating? As for keeping quiet, the cat is out of the bag. It is a definite bug (if confirmed) that should be fixed. I can't imagine not fixing it. It is too BIG. Aircraft were an important part of this WWII and hence an important part of this game. Cheating? No way. Silly? Yes, if they continue to play that scenario. Oh no, my current PBEM game has aircraft. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leopard_2 Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by Le Tondu: If this is happening automatically and no one can control aircraft, how can his opponent possibly be cheating?Tell me, in a PBEM game where you only make one turn at a time, how often did you have to save your game? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredKors Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by Leopard_2: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Le Tondu: If this is happening automatically and no one can control aircraft, how can his opponent possibly be cheating?Tell me, in a PBEM game where you only make one turn at a time, how often did you have to save your game? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37mm Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Yes I agree I think I've had like one FF incident... its important that people know about this not only so they can avoid cheats but avoid becoming cheats inadvertently. A whole load of PBEM games have to be saved whilst upgrading. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_no_one Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 .....I saved my PBEM game because, in the middle of a long order phase, I wanted to replay the last movie (and this happens often to me)Open two windows of CM.In one have the last movie file open,in the other the orders phase.Alt-Tab back and forth .....(and friendly fire is not so frequent as people thinks).Couldnt agree more.I dont think I have ever had a airplane commit friendly fire against me while playing PBEM.Against the AI is a different story. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Does this mean that any time you save other than at the end of a PBEM turn any aircraft will rearm in flight ? It seems like it would be pretty hard to avoid triggering this if you play against the AI and never play games straight through. Also, if I understand correctly, it means that in a large PBEM game you can't save in the middle of your turn without messing up the aircraft (and losing the file name in the game save screen, which is why I don't like to save in the middle of a turn anyway). If I understand what is going on the fix is a simple little house rule not to save in the middle of a PBEM turn to avoid messing up aircraft reloading. But are we really sure that the second and third bombing and strafing runs aren't just the rest of the flight circling around ? I thought that airplanes only went on solo missions in flight simulators. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredKors Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by 37mm: its important that people know about this not only so they can avoid cheats but avoid becoming cheats inadvertently Bravo! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredKors Posted December 10, 2004 Author Share Posted December 10, 2004 There is anyone that could confirm this bug? The Truth is Out There. [ December 10, 2004, 05:08 AM: Message edited by: FredKors ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredKors Posted December 10, 2004 Author Share Posted December 10, 2004 There is anyone that could confirm this bug? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tondu Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 I'm glad that you've asked that FredKors and for what its worth (everyone,) I did a test. I simulated a 30 turn PBEM game where: the map was a flat 1520m x 1520m square with no cover at all. The skies were Clear and the wind was Still. Temperature was set for cool in July 1943 (Italy.) The Axis had 20 trucks and a single FW 190F fighter bomber. The Allies had just 20 trucks. The trucks were placed in 5 groups of 4 for both sides. (A formation with 2 groups forward, 2 in the rear & 1 in the center.) The result : Nothing happened until turn 9 when 4 Allied trucks were knocked out with bombs. On turn 10, 11, 12, 13, & 14 an Allied truck was knocked out with a strafing run. I made a total of 13 saves during this simulation. I saved from both sides and I even double saved. (Save a game after bringing up a saved game.) CONCLUSION 1. No extra bombs fell. 2. No extra strafing runs happened. 3. No friendly fire happened. I either didn't do it right OR there is NO BUG. Could the opponent of FredKors have cheated in some unreported manner that brought about his results? OR is this all an elaborate conspiracy perpetrated by the Illuminati and the Religious Right? Either way, in my opinion there is no bug --period and I will not try another test. Someone else can. I hope this contributes in some helpful manner. [ December 10, 2004, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Le Tondu ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37mm Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Well isn't that something 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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