MasterGoodale's Mystery WWII Photo Thread (Pics Posted!)

[Mies]

Stories like this makes you think about what is still lying around in boxes stacked away in storage rooms and cellars everywhere...

Mies

[Screeny]

HIHAAA,

I love this story!! I must admit it sounds pretty weird indeed and it is hard to believe it is true , but eh...who knows. Why would MG make up such a story??? Seems pretty motiveless..

Anyway, I can't wait to see the pictures, GM keep us informed PLEASE!!!!!!.

And maybe you could even contact the discovery channel... give/sell/borrow them the pics and they can make a fancy docu about it: "This is the story of a wargamer who made the most exiting and mysterious discovery a hardcore wargamer and WW2 freak can only dream of. In this programme we follow the path into the past in search of the origins of this remarkable discovery...." .

Unfortunately my grandparents who were right in the middle of the war past away allready, but I'll check the boxes with their old stuff anyway, just to make sure

gr

Screeny

[lucero1148]

As far as copyright goes they belong to MG since he has possession of the negs. Simple as that until someone will contest and show proof of ownership.

All best

Patrick

[RSColonel_131st]

Why are you guys still worrying about the number of photos? I think A.E.B explained it perfectly well.

If someone wanted to archive 100 Photographs on a single roll of film, he simple needed to make 25 shots of 4 photos each. That shoould fit in a camera back then.

When developing the negatives, the photo store might simple have splitted up the 4 pictures per frame again, maybe without even telling your grandpad the technical details behind the process.

[vanwag]

Once they are scanned, you can post of few on this webpage's forum...

Wehrmacht Awards

They have a forum section for 'Award Doc's, Photos, and Paper Items' and you can get opinions on their authenticity... lots of collectors & historions belong and will gladly give advice.

[Lou2000]

Keeping in mind the valid questions already raised about the camera & date etc, lets assume all this is true .........

Then I would offer MG one word of advice ....dont try to 'flatten' them using a large book ....you wont do them any good no matter how carefully you try.

GET IT DONE PROFESSIONALLY !

If not you could have genuine reason to post AAAGGGHHH :mad: :mad: :mad: AAAGGGHHH

OK so it was more than one word...but you get the picture !!!

Lou2000

[ January 27, 2003, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: Lou2000 ]

[MasterGoodale]

Baaahhh. . .this all has me slightly depressed and discouraged. Not about the authenticity of the story. I don't lie and neither does my gramp. He's very old and who knows how many synapses are firing properly and how many aren't. I can honestly say that the following statements are true, and I will dig further into thias if it kills me to answer the rest of the questions you all and myself have:

1. The camera was found in Munich sometime during or immediately after the War.

2. My Gramp was in the battle of the bulge as an artillery gunner. I will verify the exact unit because he still has his discharge card that said I THINK the 524th Artillery Battallion or something. He also has his original draft card and 3-4 pictures of one of the concentration camps that he went to when there were still jews there. The pictures are are of dead jews piled up and American soldiers around them. I THINK he said it was Aushwitz or something. He has a photo of the entire camp from a distance also. He took these himself if I remember correctly. They are a little worn as they have been in his wallet for almost 50 years. I asked him why he kept them in his wallet and he just looked at me and said "So that I never forget". I plan to get copies of those as well but after he said that I wasn't comfortable asking for them to copy.

3. The picture size is something I still have to measure exactly. I didn't have time to do much last night but I have a box of staples here at the office that I think is very close to the dimensions of the pictures and it's 4 inches long by 2.25 inches tall. The pictures have a white border on all sides about 1/8th of an inch or so.

4. I will count the pictures I have tonight. may not be fifty, maybe only 40 and my gramp said that he had "that many again" before the rat stole them.

I still have the following questions to answer:

1. Approximately how many photos total did Gramp have?

2. Does he remember what kind of camera it was? Could he recognize the camera if he saw a picture of it?

3. Where exactly did he find the camera? In a famous building or on the street?

4. Exactly WHEN did he find the camera? Maybe the most important question of all.

5. Does he have the negatives? I didn't ask him this, but if he does and they can still be developed I will literally **** my pants. I doubt he does though.

These questions WILL be answered. I will send him an email and ask him all of the above.

I'm discouraged bacause you are all saying "Don't flatten the photos with a book", but I already put 5 photos of hitler last night in a phone book VERY CAREFULLY and they didn't seem to crack when I press the book down. The one of the underground party (I think it is) cracked down the middle when I tried to flatten it by hand, but the part that cracked was just the table. The faces and stuff are still very well preserved.

I won't do anything else to these pictures until i find a way to have it done right. The film is rather dry after all these years and fragile.

I really appreciate the advice and theories you guys have provided! That link to te camera was really cool because it verified that cameras back then DID hold 100 pictures or more/less. I like the theory that the pictures may be photos of photos too! I never thought of that.

More will be revealed as I go undercover and investigate. . . :cool:

Please don't think I made this story up. That's ridiculous. Why would I?

[RSColonel_131st]

I think someone is impersonalting Master Goodale here, BTW.

I didn't a single "Maggot", "aaarrgglll" or "TNT chucking..." in this thread. His posts are also missing the angry faces. :mad:

Doesn't sound like Goodale at all

[MasterGoodale]

This is MasterGoodale - you must be thinking of MasterGoodale, GrandMaster TNT-Chucker :mad: . he's in the "other" thread.

[ColumbusOHGamer]

If what you say is true, you shouldn't attempt to "restore" any pix yourself. Take one of the better pix to your local university hisory department or local museum and have the authenticity of the pics verified.

After that, ask the university ro museum who THEY would recommend restoring the pics. You need professionals to do it right.

My .02

COG

[ January 27, 2003, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: ColumbusOHGamer ]

[Dave H]

Originally posted by MasterGoodale:

This is MasterGoodale - you must be thinking of MasterGoodale, GrandMaster TNT-Chucker :mad: . he's in the "other" thread.

NOOOOOO!!! There are TWO of them?? That's the single most depressing statement I've ever seen on the internet. :eek:

[MasterGoodale]

I just finished sending the email to Gramp asking him 6 important questions about the photos. Hopefully he'll get back to me within a week or so. I think his answers will help a lot.

[Gutshot]

Yeah Goodale,it's a good thing you're a regular guy who doesn't just want to make big bucks out of them by selling them to the newspapers...

(Edit-Hey Goodale,my mate Headshot wonders why he aint on your Daddies list after he greedily ate your TNT by the bucketfull and still beat you?)

[ January 27, 2003, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Gutshot ]

[M Hofbauer]

MasterGoodale,

Nobody here thinks you made the story up. And of course, like Dorosh said, if you wish assistance with IDing the pictures am sure everyone here is gladly willing to help.

The "problem" if there is one is not your tale since you honestly said everything you experienced / that has been said to you. The "problem" is the story of your grandfather, with the over 100 pictures on a single fillm, and from different times. Even then, it could be true, or he could remember them a bit wrong. For example, if there were several rolls of film together with the camera, then that would explain both the number of pictures and the various times (each roll could be from a different year / set of years).

please do not take the natural quibbling, questioning and nibbling of the Grogs here as a mistruist in *your* story. I think we all very much appreciate your story and feel with you.

yours sincerely,

M.Hofbauer

As regards the legal aspect,

Pvt. Ryan:

"The original photographer (and copyright holder) is probably long gone. These photos would most likely now be in the public domain"

copyright of unpublished pictures ends 50 years (70 years depending on where you live) after the death of the author (photographer). That would require the owner of the camera to die at war's end or soon after. So I think it is safe to assume that the pictures are not public domain yet.

lucero1148 :

"As far as copyright goes they belong to MG since he has possession of the negs. Simple as that until someone will contest and show proof of ownership."

True.

[MasterGoodale]

Yeah I know, I don't take the questions as insults I welcome them because it makes me look for answers to questions I may otherwise not have thought of. I just wanted people to know I didn't just make the story up that's all. In addition, I should take some of the blame for some of the vague info as I was so excited about the pictures I probably didn't hear everything he said and I didn't ask the questions I needed to.

Have no fear!! I shall slueth my way to the truth!!! :cool:

[benpark]

Ask your Grandfather if it was a "Voightlander" camera. It would fit the size of the prints made from the negatives that camera takes. My Grandfather brought one back from Germany-they were a very popular camera in Germany in the 1920-60's.

It is almost an impossibility that the pictures were taken with that Kodak Brownie that was linked. There was no control over exposere, it was literally the first point and click camera. And as for people suggesting that there were pictures that were rephotographed, making more than 1 picture per negative-this is also unlikely. I would have to see the prints, but the likelyhood of all 4 pictures being of the same exposure, thus all coming out relatively well is really unlikely.

Goodale-you won't likely find anyone to press your pictures flat for you. I worked for Polaroid in their archive of art photography for 4 years, and when something was curled (an Ansel Adams for instance, there were hundreds of em)-we would carefully press it under a large weight. Do this slowly and carefully. One weight per picture.

Absolutely no one doubts your story-I for one think it's amazing, and want to help you verify the timeframe of the pictures (because it is highly unlikely they came from some type of camera that I don't know about )

[MasterGoodale]

Thanks Ben, I appreciate the help! As soon as these photos are in a stable condition to be scanned (and as soon as I get a scanner LOL!) I will be posting them on the web. I have to be safe about it in terms of preventing people from copying them though because that wouldn't be fair to my Gramps. He and his wife insisted I keep the originals but I refused. After I make him and myself a photo album of larger enhanced photos from the originals I plan to put the originals in a photo album as well and give it back to him.

[Frenchy]

Scan them in TIFF format. You can resize them for any size for printing. Try it on your own machine. I learned this the hard way from working on my site. If you wish, I'll send you a sample in Tiff just so you can see. The drawback is that they are very large. Email in profile.

[MasterGoodale]

Hey Frenchy, do they retain the resolution when enlarged in that format? I would really like to make 5 x 7s out of the better ones but still retain the detail and maybe even enhance the sharpness, remove any discoloration and age stains, etc.

What about those Kodak machines they have at Walmart where you put the picture in and resize and when you like what you see you print it?

[benpark]

Scanning the pictures professionally would be a good investment-you could have them burned onto a disk. Or get a scanner-Epson makes the best, hands down.

I would do up to a 10mb scan of each one. You could easily replicate the quality of the print that way.

(make sure that the photo albums are archival!)

You have inspired me to make a page of my Gramps pics from the 113th Mech. Cav.(Red Horse) in France, Holland and Germany. I'll send the link in a week or 2.

[MasterGoodale]

Originally posted by benpark:

Scanning the pictures professionally would be a good investment-you could have them burned onto a disk. Or get a scanner-Epson makes the best, hands down.

I would do up to a 10mb scan of each one. You could easily replicate the quality of the print that way.

(make sure that the photo albums are archival!)

You have inspired me to make a page of my Gramps pics from the 113th Mech. Cav.(Red Horse) in France, Holland and Germany. I'll send the link in a week or 2.

Will do! Thanks!

I may buy a nice scanner in a month or two for hom, but in the meantime I'll try to figure out where I can have them professionally scanned at 10MB or better.

I can't wait to get the one of Hitler marching by in full Nazi dress redone in a larger size!! Ohh the huuumanity!!!

[akdavis]

Goodale, as has been said, do not attempt to restore or mount these prints yourself, at least not until you go through the process of establishing their historical value (and regardless, they should never be permanently mounted to a page). If you simply must flatten them (keep in mind this is not necessary for an expert to look at them), place a piece of archival material (acid-free matting board would be ideal) in between the print and the weight. Putting prints into the ink-covered pages of books is a bad idea.

Anyways, whether or not your grandfather has those negatives and what you need to do to protect them if he does is the most important question you need answered.

If these are simply prints made from copy-work negatives (photos of prints), then they may have very little value. Remember a print only takes on value if its negative original is destroyed/lost. Impossible to say whether they are originals or not until an expert can look at them.

From the content you describe, there's a good chance they are the work of Heinrich Hoffman, Hitler's close friend and official photographer. Hoffman was with the Nazi party from the beginning and took some 2.5 million photographs of Hitler. Hitler trusted only Hoffman to take candid or "behind-the-scenes" type photographs (they were still often highly controlled). Here's some links:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERhoffmann.htm

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/hitler2.htm

And I'm sure you'll recognize one of Hoffman's most famous photographs:

Where do you live Goodale? If you are anywhere near Austin, Texas, the University of Texas' Harry Ransom Humanities Research Center has an excellent staff of photographic archivists and one of the finest photo archives in the world. If these turn out to be original photographs of Hitler, you might consider this facility if you want those photographs saved for posterity.

No matter what, keep all your Grandfather's photographs safe and dry, preferably in some sort of acid-free container.

[RSColonel_131st]

Goodale, depending on where you want the pictures parked in the web there should be ways of preventing people from stealing them.

I'll have a look into that maybe I can did up some scripts to disable mouseclick and sourcecode view on a website. That way no one could copy them.

[MasterGoodale]

Good advice! I will take the ones I put in the phone book pages out when I get home tonight. Hopefully I didn't hurt them. Then I will take the advice I've received here and put it to use. the most important thing is to preserve what I have, then work on duplication. Where would I get acid-free liners or containers??

[MasterGoodale]

Oh and I live in New Hampshire. Who's the guy to the right of Hitler inn that pic? I think he's in one of my photographs, but he looks younger in my pic. He's doing a speech and there are a few people besides Hitler sitting nearby on a stage of some sort. he's wearing what I believe is a white uniform, but it's hard to tell. It could be tan I suppose.