Is there a way to pit germans vs. germans?

[dorsey]

Or Soviets vs. Soviets?

Just for fun and ultimate play balance, I think it would be fun to set up some senarios like this. Is there a way to do it?

[Michael Dorosh]

No.

[Other Means]

Originally posted by dorsey:

Or Soviets vs. Soviets?

Just for fun and ultimate play balance, I think it would be fun to set up some senarios like this. Is there a way to do it?

You could play Germans with captured Soviet T34's but they would still have the advantage of better ammo - a German T34 outperforms a Soviet T34.

There's some other stuff undergone the same process but MD's answer is basically correct.

[mike8g]

You can play Romanians vs. Romanians (only via editor)

This way you can have absolute identical equipment.

Marcus

[Pzman]

I did that a few times, and had some interesting fights.

[SgtMuhammed]

This is something I hope they put into the new engine. I prefer historical battles but every once in a while I like to go nuts with a "What If."

[Pugilist]

If someone can figure out a way to cheat in PBEM, why can't they figure out a way to get around this silly rule?

I sure hope BF changes their mind for CMX2 and lets us play whatever we want to. You might say it is bad business not to. I may play 100% historical scenarios in all of my PBEM games, but I might just have the urge to fire up a QB versus the AI, pitting American paratroopers against Russian SMG squads, or whatever.

The lack of non-historical potential is my only major beef with the current games. I say, please leave it up to the players and scenario designers if they want to be historically accurate.

[MikeyD]

I recall BFC's response to this suggestion some time ago. Basically, they worked very VERY hard to make CM as acurate a historical sim as they could. Considering their goal for the game, they'd no more consider pitting Germans against Germans than pitting Germans against giant flying monkeys - no matter how fun a Germans vs flying monkey battle might be!

[SgtMuhammed]

Then again I can pit a brigade of Tigers against a division of MG jeeps. The accuracy in the game is in the units not how they can be used.

I guess this is just another plea for CMETO.

[Ardem]

I agree, there should be some flexability in units and histories.

If we want to play true history then we should have no interaction and watch a dvd.

Some of us play meta campaigns on what if scenarios, we use the WWII timeline of equipment and tactics and have a lot of fun.

It would not be to hard to unlock units to be played on anyside.

For instance as far as germans fighting germans, WHAT IF ... The staged coup against hitler actually was successful and the germans were knocked into a small civil war.

What if Germany allied with Poland which left the west happy, and then the soviets attacked german causing a West verus East scenario.

All very possible historically, if the diplomacy played out differently.

I think with CMx2 they really allow scenario developers more freedom and not just restrict them.

Many of my bug bears with HOI2 events are not random but triggered date event, we play history to change it not replicate it, otherwise we may as well watch a DVD.

[l.cassidy]

originally posted by Other Means: You could play Germans with captured Soviet T34's but they would still have the advantage of better ammo - a German T34 outperforms a Soviet T34.

Really? :eek:

With all due respect, are there tests supporting this statement?

I'm asking because I was sure that ammo wouldn't have been a problem in a "like on like" engagement...

Let me explain: I've suggested to one of my usual opponents a balanced pure-armor M.E. to improve our tanks tactics. So balanced that at first I've proposed a Panther vs. Panther engagement using captured tanks. Then I realized that there could be more than that, so here's the OOB:

2 Panthers plts. (3 tanks each plt.)

4 T-34 Plts. (12 tanks altoghether)

1 Su-85 plt. (4 tanks)

Crews are all regulars (and NO, I didn't botch with morale bonuses and/or ammo loadouts! ).

Now, I'm more prone to think that command delays (russky side) can be an issue, but different ammo quality never crossed my mind!

Come on! Let's suppose a German squad captures a T34: they hand it over to a kraut crew, but the ammo they use will be soviet ones. Why? Because Axis industries don't produce rounds for the 76.2/L43 soviet gun!

Same goes for the Russians: their captured Panther won't use russky made ammo for a german 75mm/L70 gun!

Or not? :confused:

I hope what you're saying, O.M., is not true: guess who will play as Russian? :mad:

Cheers

Cassidy

[junk2drive]

Go to the CMBBdb and add the German and Soviet same T34s to the compare feature. Look at penetration figures.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Originally posted by Pugilist:

If someone can figure out a way to cheat in PBEM,

How do people cheat in a PBEM? I'm not asking for a how-to necessarily, but what is the general cheat method?

[l.cassidy]

Thanks for the tip, Junk2drive.

I checked the CMBBdb and, yes, you and Other Means are right. Even HE rounds have different penetration figures! I still fail to see the logic in it, though, expecially this one-way advantage to the Axis.

Same tank, same ammo. The only other things that change are the crew and the paintjob.

I think that the side (ANY side) that uses captured tanks should be slightly disadvantaged, at least in terms of main gun handling (accuracy, target acquisition and ROF). After all, the crew fights in a machine in which it has never been trained before.

Anyway, one thing I know for sure: my opponent will be happy to hear the good news!

[junk2drive]

The way I hear it is that the Germans manufactured their own ammo for the Soviet guns and it is higher quality.

[l.cassidy]

Uh,oh...

Thanks again, mate: this explains everything.

Dastardly b@st@rds!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: