Excellent Armor Book

[RCHRD]

It is offensive to me, and very likely untrue.

[Steiner14]

Originally posted by Sirocco:

We all have to justify our sigs.

Sure.

Jerusalem: 3 October, 2001 (IAP News)

An acrimonious argument erupted during the Israeli cabinet weekly session

last week between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his foreign

Minister Shimon Peres during which Sharon reportedly yelled at Peres,

saying "don't worry about American pressure, we control America."

According the Israeli Hebrew radio, Col Yisrael Wednesday, Peres warned

Sharon that refusing to heed incessant American requests for a cease-fire

with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests and turn the US

against us.

At this point, a furious Sharon reportedly turned toward Peres, saying

"every time we do something you tell me American will do this and will do

that…I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American

pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the

Americans know it."

The radio said Peres and other cabinet ministers warned Sharon against

saying what he said in public because "it would cause us a public relations

disaster."

I hope this will find the acceptance of the inquisition tribunal and we can continue with more or less useful opinions about the topic.

[ December 26, 2004, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: Steiner14 ]

[kipanderson]

Hi,

Just to reinforce what some others have already mentioned.

In my view David Glantz is by far the number one master of the Eastern Front. The depth and quality of his knowledge is unrivalled in all the many dozens of books I have on the subject. I would recommend the two books he co-wrote with Jonathan House as a good starting point, When Titans Clashed and The Battle of Kursk.

I would also like to reinforce the views expressed above by Alkiviadis, if I may, I will just quote from his contribution,

“Hell's Gate" by Douglas E. Nash (MZM Imports) is an incredible history of the battle of the Korsun Pocket, many interviews of participants from both sides, lots of detailed small unit actions as well as the big picture, great maps & photos...truly harrowing; it's right up there at the top (again by an US Army officer).” Exactly….

If you are looking for a book covering a single Eastern Front battle or campaign then Hell’s Gate is unequalled. The mix of quality text, the layout and pictures is such that it is so far unequalled by any other such books. Outstanding.

All good fun,

All the best,

Kip.

PS. Of course, the books that have at sometime been published by Fedorowicz tend to be wildly pro-German because of their authors backgrounds… including the Will Fey book. But they can still be a good read as long as one does not take the personal recollections therein as anything more than a very one-sided personal account.In my view.

[Shmavis]

Originally posted by spartan1:

Berlin: the downfall 1945 by Antony Beevor is a book that I would suggest for anyone interested not only in the battle aspects but also to the attrocities of Red army and how unhuman they treated the German population, raping and killing anything standing on their way and I am sorry to hear that somebody can call this a "payback" to the previous German attrocities.

We all need to pray for the victims of this war from any side they come from.

I should like to mention that Mr. Beevor also stated how brutal the Soviets were in trying to bring the situation under control during a discussion I saw on CSPAN, I believe. He related how a German woman was desperate to save her companion from the drunken abuse of a Russian soldier and managed to find a Russian lieutenant. He followed her back to the place where her companion was and promptly shot the soldier in the head. Though, as others have stated, it was payback time.

[Sirocco]

Originally posted by Steiner14:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sirocco:

We all have to justify our sigs.

Sure. </font>

[Sirocco]

Originally posted by kipanderson:

If you are looking for a book covering a single Eastern Front battle or campaign then Hell’s Gate is unequalled. The mix of quality text, the layout and pictures is such that it is so far unequalled by any other such books. Outstanding.

I would echo that. It's a wonderful large format book with a good layout. As I recall it's peppered with typo's, which is the only criticism I'd have of it. It's well worth the price.

[Ardem]

I am reading a good book at the moment, called 'the forgotten soldier' by Guy Sajer about a german grunt throughout the eastern campaign.

He give all his personal accounts and although atrocities are mentioned about both the germans and russian he doesn't dwell on them.

It more about the life as a soldier. Very good

[Alkiviadis]

Originally posted by Ardem:

I am reading a good book at the moment, called 'the forgotten soldier' by Guy Sajer about a german grunt throughout the eastern campaign.

...

There has been a lot of back & forth dispute over this book: hoax or real? I tend to believe hoax myself. Simply because I had my doubts which for me were confirmed reading a review in (Strategy & Tactics?) many years ago. The reviewer had a neighbor who was ex-Wehrmacht to whom the reviewer gave the book for comments. The ex-wehrmacht guy proceeded to rip it to pieces page by page, inaccuracies, lies, lack of knowledge re: German Army SOPs, etc. It's fiction, like "Wheels of Terror, or anything else by Sven Hassel.

[spartan1]

Originally posted by Ardem:

I am reading a good book at the moment, called 'the forgotten soldier' by Guy Sajer about a german grunt throughout the eastern campaign.

He give all his personal accounts and although atrocities are mentioned about both the germans and russian he doesn't dwell on them.

It more about the life as a soldier. Very good

Very good book indeed a must read especially if someone wants to know how eastern front was from a soldier point of view

Spartan1

[Cannon-fodder]

Steiner, I think you've taken the Ariel Sharon quote rather out of context - he's saying that as far as the Middle East is concerned, Isreal controls America. Which is probably correct to a degree. Seems a bit strange to have a rather anti-Semitic quote on a WW2 game site though...

[Shmavis]

Originally posted by Alkiviadis:

There has been a lot of back & forth dispute over this book: hoax or real? I tend to believe hoax myself. Simply because I had my doubts which for me were confirmed reading a review in (Strategy & Tactics?) many years ago. The reviewer had a neighbor who was ex-Wehrmacht to whom the reviewer gave the book for comments. The ex-wehrmacht guy proceeded to rip it to pieces page by page, inaccuracies, lies, lack of knowledge re: German Army SOPs, etc. It's fiction, like "Wheels of Terror, or anything else by Sven Hassel.

Hmmmm. I suppose it could be a "hoax". I'm having trouble seeing what it was the author or book had to gain, except for sales due to reader interest, maybe. Could it have been an elaborate attempt to garner sympathy for Alsatians and other non-Germans who served in the Wehrmacht, and, if they weren't killed in combat, would probably not be able to return to their homes at the war's end? This brings out the conspiracy theorist in me. Question everything!

[Ardem]

I on the other hand believe it is not a good book on details but on feelings of a scared young soldier. So I can understand how he would of got the details historian argue about, wrong.

Sorry the feelings and the humbleness of a common soldier seem very authentic, I believe it as a true account.

Well I think you have to make up your own mind but here is a website that may help a little.

http://members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/sajer.htm

[ January 05, 2005, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: Ardem ]

[Moon]

Locking this thread as it swayed off-topic.

Martin