gaffertape Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Me, I mean. I have no doubt when I start up CMBO or CMBB that I am playing a WW2 simulation that is as accurate as possible. I therefore can sadly lay claim to being just a horrible commander. My men would be well advised to shoot me prior to any opening barrage. It seems that despite years of playing, I have learned very little. I still get decimated by the AI on a regular basis. I understand the concept of fire-and-manouver, I just can't seem to execute it properly. I wonder if a big part of my problem is my personal bias towards armour. Tanks are my focus, and as a result, things routinely fall apart. I can't seem to stop looking at battles as tank vs tank tradeoffs. I hate playing the 'sacrifice game' of sending a squad or a scout car ahead to draw fire. It seems 'gamey' to me, yet if I don't do this I end up with 5 burning tanks instead of one burning halftrack. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 You can't hit what you can't see, and if you're not seen you won't be hit. WW2 tanks have very poor observation, and are very easy to see. Which is why you're supposed to support the tanks with infantry (or vice versa). /SirReal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Armored battles are the great equalizer. Given two forces of fairly equal characteristics the battle resolves itself around probability and statistics. How many times have you manuevered to get that perfect flank shot, only to have your gunner miss and the enemy rotates and takes you out with one shot. AARRGGHHH!!! Just remember that when laws of probability come into play, tactics will take second place in a one battle situation. Over the course of a number of games it will eventually balance out so: When fighting tank vs tank do not ever get too cocky or too depressed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Good tactics consists of stacking the deck in your own favor as much as you can. Learn the strengths and weaknesses of your own and the enemy's forces, then play to your strengths and his weakness. If you are using tanks and it is likely that he will have lots of AT guns, buy lots of artillery too. Even such light artillery as some on-map mortars can swing the whole battle in your favor. As soon as he exposes an AT gun, smack it with artillery. A type of attack I often use is to advance my infantry on foot with the armor some distance behind to provide overwatch. When enemy MGs pop up to shoot at my grunts, the tanks smash 'em. When he can't take that any more and opens up with the AT guns, the arty smashes them in turn. That way, each arm helps all the others do their jobs. Michael [ September 08, 2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Michael Emrys ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 When it comes to being a bad commander, I rule you all. Even Seanachai is beating me in a game where I had him well overmatched. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phemur Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Oh, so we're having a little contest as to who is the worst commander, eh? Here's my entry, then: Germans vs Russians, 1500 pt QB, nice weather, rural area. I'm playing the Soviets. I have a rifle battalion and a few T-34, and I'm facing 3 Ferdinands and an SS company. My T-34 get smashed by the Ferdinands early on in the game, but my infantry is holding their own. They've cleared out most of the SS, and control most of the map, except the area where the Ferdinands are holding out: a large, flat, open field. So I order my troops to assault over this open field. 600m of open field to cross to get within grenade/molotov range. Needless to say, everyone was killed/routed. Phemur 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Real-world tank battles, that means battles where the tanks were the center of activity, instead of just supporting somebody else, had many more tanks than a typical CM battle. As people said, if you play with these 3-8 AFVs in typical CM battles the result gets very much drawn towards statistics. On the other hand, the company and battalion infantry forces we play in CM allow for proper smaking the enemy with better planning. If you start using who tank companies or battalions you will have more skill-dependent results in tank battles, too. Ihere is a reason why it is called a tank company and an infantry company. In CM the tanks usually get scaled down by one level, that means where you play a company-sized infantry force in CM you would do a tank platoon if you turned it into a tank battle. If you played an infantry battalion you would at most get a company of tanks in CM instead. But this is not reality, in reality they used tank companies and battalions when they used infantry companies and battalions. Of course, not at so many places on the whole front, but where tanks operate, they would seek to do so in the sme formation size as the infantry, but scaled down one level as in CM. Of course, the CM price victory point system enforces this, the tanks are one level more expensive. But that is hard to fix. Last but not least, don't forget artillery. Tanks forces would practially never attack without proper artillery support, except if they broke through to areas behind enemy lines where there would be few ATGs. If the enemy managed to through a big towed AT unit into their way and they were out of artillery (range, ammo, comms) they would do elsewhere or stop. Or die. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Originally posted by redwolf: If you played an infantry battalion you would at most get a company of tanks in CM instead. But this is not reality, in reality they used tank companies and battalions when they used infantry companies and battalions. Of course, not at so many places on the whole front, but where tanks operate, they would seek to do so in the sme formation size as the infantry, but scaled down one level as in CM. Of course, the CM price victory point system enforces this, the tanks are one level more expensive. But that is hard to fix.I'm having hard time following you here... care to clarify what you said? :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Originally posted by Sergei: I'm having hard time following you here... care to clarify what you said? :confused: In CM tanks units are usually one level smaller than infantry units. If you would operate in one given scenario and did it with infantry one time and with tanks the next time, then in a battle where you would give a battalion of infantry you would give a company of tanks, instead of a battalion of tanks. Same for a company of infantry, which is usually substitutded with a tank platoon. Of course the fighting power of a company of battalion of tanks is higher than that of an infantry unit of same size, it is a play balance issue. Considering realism instead of play balance it would be more realistic to stay with the normal equivalent, or at least with a factor of 2 or 2.5 instead of 3.5 (considering the lower readiness of tanks). If you did, then tank units wouldn't be a brittle as they are in most CM battles, and tactical skill would gain importance relative to luck and chance. Of course this would be hard to make balanced, and the victory point calculations and flags values would be messed up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 You mean like in say a 500 point QB, you would have enough points to buy a company of infantry, but only enough to buy a platoon of tanks? [edit]-Just noticed this. When you go to the main forum and review the topics it shows: Worst Commander Ever (your name) Okay, somebody else step up and post! [ September 08, 2003, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Jim Boggs ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffertape Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 Many thanks for the input, lads. I'm quite sure that some day, in some battle I will all of a sudden 'get it' and win handsomely. And then never be able to repeat it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THumpre Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Please, as bad commanders I respectfully submit that you are all mere pikers when cmpared to my truly astounding level of incompetence . I have not won a PBEM in living mememory, regularly lose all my armor within minutes of the opening minute,and have seen entire companies of infantry decimated in seemingly "perfect assaults :eek: Not only am I bad, but I am unlucky and bad.... [ September 08, 2003, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: THumpre ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I actually had a plan work a few days ago. My opponent had a StuG wandering about on my left flank, so I set up my next moves to have a squad open fire on him to button him up, then as he moved forward into LOS to my T-34 that was downslope from him (and presenting himself as a juicy target), my tank hunter team nailed him. And my plans never work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Originally posted by Boo Radley: I actually had a plan work a few days ago. My opponent had a StuG wandering about on my left flank, so I set up my next moves to have a squad open fire on him to button him up, then as he moved forward into LOS to my T-34 that was downslope from him (and presenting himself as a juicy target), my tank hunter team nailed him. And my plans never work. Your T-34 never fired??? :confused: :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Originally posted by Jim Boggs: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Boo Radley: I actually had a plan work a few days ago. My opponent had a StuG wandering about on my left flank, so I set up my next moves to have a squad open fire on him to button him up, then as he moved forward into LOS to my T-34 that was downslope from him (and presenting himself as a juicy target), my tank hunter team nailed him. And my plans never work. Your T-34 never fired??? :confused: :confused: </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Originally posted by THumpre: ...I am unlucky and bad.... That's a tough combination to beat, I have to admit. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Originally posted by Boo Radley: ...by the time I had LOS and was rotating to confront the StuG...Next time, slap down an armor covered arc on the area where you expect the bogie to appear. That way, your guy will be ready and waiting. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Worst Commander Ever? I surrendered a PBEM to MasterGoodale! It wasn't only because his turns came at the pace of Chinese water torture, but because he was likely to win, too. I think that puts me in pretty elite company. :eek: :eek: :mad: :mad: Any of the rest of you Worst Commanders open for a PBEM? Send me an e-mail; I've got just the thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THumpre Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Originally posted by Dave H: Worst Commander Ever? I surrendered a PBEM to MasterGoodale! It wasn't only because his turns came at the pace of Chinese water torture, but because he was likely to win, too. I think that puts me in pretty elite company. :eek: :eek: :mad: :mad: Any of the rest of you Worst Commanders open for a PBEM? Send me an e-mail; I've got just the thing. You're on...but I think some industrious soul should start up a Serious Loser Tourney for all of us unfortunates. It would have to be invitational of course, perhaps the participants would have to be sponsored in? I know i could find enough people to attest to my incompetence... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Originally posted by THumpre: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dave H: ... Any of the rest of you Worst Commanders open for a PBEM? Send me an e-mail; I've got just the thing. You're on...but I think some industrious soul should start up a Serious Loser Tourney for all of us unfortunates. It would have to be invitational of course, perhaps the participants would have to be sponsored in? I know i could find enough people to attest to my incompetence... </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Boo Radley: ...by the time I had LOS and was rotating to confront the StuG...Next time, slap down an armor covered arc on the area where you expect the bogie to appear. That way, your guy will be ready and waiting. Michael </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Originally posted by Boo Radley: You know, I would have done that, but for one simple reason. I didn't think of it. That's the kind of hard core, micro-managing, anal-retentive, chess master kind of player I am. "Boo, why didn't you have your men in a classic reverse slope defense instead of having them sitting out in the open with their backs to my machine guns???" "I was getting a cookie." Radley I don't care what the others say, you're okay!!! Feckin Hilarious You play it like it's a game or somefink!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffertape Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 Boo- I believe one of Guderian's true strengths was that he was able to avoid the temptation of cookies during armour engagements. So I've read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Well here's one. I just asked the AI for a ceasefire on turn 7 of a 100 turn QB when I found out my ISU-152s won't destroy concrete MGPBs. Call me a sore loser... (Next time I'll be sure he only gets wooden PBs.) Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartokomus Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Originally posted by gaffertape: Boo- I believe one of Guderian's true strengths was that he was able to avoid the temptation of cookies during armour engagements. So I've read. THANK YOU!! With your permission i now have my new Sig line for work. not certain anyone will know it's a joke; but i will Murray 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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