Trommelfeuer Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 There are so many wwII photos out there, and often I wonder wheter they are authentic or staged... photo 1 photo 2 * source: A gallery of rare and / or interesting WWII photos What would you say - fake or authentic ? ( When the first two photos are discussed, we could go on with the next photo etc.. ) Regards, Sven [ March 04, 2004, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: Trommelfeuer ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 The first one seems to be an authentic fake. Maybe a still from a Russian war movie? There is absolutely, positively no way that real men would be fighting like that packed so tight and so close to enemy and be lying in the open as tanks are coming towards them. The photographer is in a kind of dangerous position too. The situation in the second one looks a bit unclear. Apparently they are pulling out a surrendered crew member. Note the towing cables attached to the rear hooks of the T-34. That a StuG in front of it? Why are they so close? The Russian guy seems either ****-scared of the baby-eating fascists or then injured. Might be a fake, I don't understand why there are towing cables but the crew member hasn't had time to leave the AFV. But that's not a definite judgement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trommelfeuer Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 The first one seems to be an authentic fake...Lol!, Yea, good arguments! For the second one...maybe the T-34 and the Sturmgeschütz crashed together ? And the two germans with head-bandages are from the Stug and the T-34 tankist is still knocked out.. ? Regards, Sven 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I've seen several sequence photos of that Stug/T34 mating. That's for real. The Stug rammed the T-34 head-on. Incapacitated the tank but the Russian crew refused to come out. The shot before this one was Germans working on the T-34 hatch with a crowbar, if memory serves. You'll notice two of the Germans have head bandages. No doubt members of the Stug crew who got just as bad as they gave. That first photo looks just like a the first game of CMBB played by a newbie! Let's rush 'em across open ground and see what happens! [ March 04, 2004, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 That's what I usually do, just ask Sergei. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I'd say the second one has been "retouched". The edges against the sky look too clean. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 The first one is a painting, no? As for the second, why is everyone assuming the guy being pulled from the turret is a Russian? His haircut is suspect, but it could be a German souvenir hunter being helped out by his "buddy"... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: The first one is a painting, no? As for the second, why is everyone assuming the guy being pulled from the turret is a Russian? His haircut is suspect, but it could be a German souvenir hunter being helped out by his "buddy"... I second the need for more historical investigation. =| Kitty 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwhit21 Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I'm not sure abotu the first, but the second looks fairly legit to me... The shaved head most, Germans in all the pics I have seen and even here at my base hold the same standard..faded up the sides to long on top. But hardly any are ever shaved melons like that. The tow chains are probalbly cause they hooked up to tow them off the other tank and outta the way and grabbed a pic while pulling dude out. I have yet to look at your link that you posted but I wanna see. Looks interesting. I dont think its pulling another German buddy out of the tank cause I dont see insignias. That and no one else is posing for the cameras. The first picture looks like a movie frame....but hell I dunno I wasnt there. they had bayonets drawn at least they are kinda accurate except for I wouldnt be that cloes with my Panzer- 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by Cwhit21: But hardly any are ever shaved melons like that. Unless they got head lice, which wasn't uncommon in Russia. Some nice photos in Buchner's GERMAN INFANTRY HANDBOOK of shaved heads - specifically, one of two Germans sitting on a "thunderpole" comes to mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 So, what do you make of these StuG´s? A movie of course but are the vehicles the real thing or just lovingly made conversions? Pretty much everything looks right to me, just that they are a little high, but that could be due to the movie format. There are a few StuG's in Finland that are in good condition after all. Does anybody know for sure? Take a look at quick time movie that can be downloaded on the middle right section of the page under "Filmtrailern", "Bredband-version" (25,8 MB). "Ahead of the front line" The movie follows IR 61 (Infantry Regiment) that was manned by members of the Swedish speaking minority in Finland (known as Finland-Swedes in Sweden). It takes place in the Svir area and on the Karelian istmus during the period 1942-44. Considering the quality of the war movies produced previously in Finland this could be a good one. If nothing else I have heard, first hand, that the direct involvement of the veterans meant that "everything" that happens in the movie happened in real life. M. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Take a look at the T-34 details. Genuine early-pattern track links. Squared-off bolted turret rear from the Stalingrad plan. Clean hull sides with no stowage. That definitely ain't no movie prop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trommelfeuer Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 Wow thanks a lot for all the replies gentlemen and gentlewoman ! Michael Dorosh wrote: As for the second, why is everyone assuming the guy being pulled from the turret is a Russian? His haircut is suspect, but it could be a German souvenir hunter being helped out by his "buddy"...The text that comes with the photo on A gallery of rare and / or interesting WWII photos is: "Nazi capturing T-34 tanker." - which can of course be false. But MikeyD wrote: I've seen several sequence photos of that Stug/T34 mating. That's for real. The Stug rammed the T-34 head-on. Incapacitated the tank but the Russian crew refused to come out. The shot before this one was Germans working on the T-34 hatch with a crowbar, if memory serves. You'll notice two of the Germans have head bandages. No doubt members of the Stug crew who got just as bad as they gave. ...sounds like it's really a russian tanker who's being dragged out of his T-34. Mattias wrote: So, what do you make of these StuG´s? A movie of course but are the vehicles the real thing or just lovingly made conversions? Pretty much everything looks right to me, just that they are a little high, but that could be due to the movie format. There are a few StuG's in Finland that are in good condition after all. Does anybody know for sure?If you are referring to the first photo...I don't see any Stugs there...? I'd say the left one is a Panzer III E ( not sure about "E" ) and the one on the right is a Panzer IV F-2 ... ? Regards, Sven 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 The first appears to be a clear fake. The position of the photographer, the tightness of the composition, and the fact that neither side appear to be firing at each other make it suspicious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 That first photo really is about as fake as it gets. Come on, what was the director of the shoot thinking? That a weakened infantry squad will face two fascist tanks face-first, out in the open with minimal cover? Makes you want to scream "AAAAAAH MOTHERLAND!", doesn't it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Trommelfeuer wrote: If you are referring to the first photo...I don't see any Stugs there...?Ah, sorry, I took the liberty of adding a new question to the thread. In the trailer that can be downloaded from the site I indicated in my post there are two Finnish StuG's taking part in the action. I was wondering.. Authentic or fake.. Which is why I thought of them when I read this post M. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trommelfeuer Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 Ups! Sorry Mattias, for obviously misunderstanding your post..and thanks for the screener ! I have posted the same thread over at RKKAWWII, and most people agree with what is written here. First photo is most probably from a film. Second photo seems to be an authentic "snapshot". O.K., next ones: Real or fake ? Photo 1: "Being covered by the hit tanks of enemy, soldiers advance." source: victory.ruarchives.ru ( Amazing photo collection ! ) Photo 2: Finnish Stugs kicking ass --> Authentic Stugs ? Or fake Stugs for the film "Ahead of the front line" ? The first photo looks "staged" to me.... About the Stugs...don't know right now... Edit: But if I compare, the one in front looks like a pretty authentic Sturmhaubitze 42 to me... Regards, Sven [ March 05, 2004, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Trommelfeuer ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Mattias - can you email me? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 You grogs realize that on any other board on the internet, given the Title of the Thread, we would be looking at boobs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trommelfeuer Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by Jim Boggs: You grogs realize that on any other board on the internet, given the Title of the Thread, we would be looking at boobs. nope...but maybe she does ? Regards, Sven [ March 05, 2004, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Trommelfeuer ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by Trommelfeuer: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jim Boggs: You grogs realize that on any other board on the internet, given the Title of the Thread, we would be looking at boobs. nope...but maybe she does ? Regards, Sven </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 How can you tell the damn SMG is covering them :mad: ! Damn the man who invented the drum magazines!! [ March 05, 2004, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: stikkypixie ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by stikkypixie: How can you tell the damn SMG is covering them :mad: ! Damn the man who invented the drum magazines!! Okay YOU tell her they're fake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by Jim Boggs: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by stikkypixie: How can you tell the damn SMG is covering them :mad: ! Damn the man who invented the drum magazines!! Okay YOU tell her they're fake. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 Originally posted by Trommelfeuer: O.K., next ones: Real or fake ?Well, define fake. Captions are often screwed, but it doesn't mean that the photograph itself wouldn't be authentic. It's more a question of, what is it supposed to depict? And we most certainly don't know for sure. But I wouldn't call it as 'fake'. As for the StuG IIIG's I haven't taken a closer look yet, but keep in mind that the Armour Museum in Parola, Finland has all sorts of functional stuff, from T-26's to T-34's. Probably couple of working StuG's as well. Panssarimuseo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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