Ju-87/G Stuka tankbuster info (cross post fm CMAK)

[Hetzer38]

Originally posted by Andreas:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hetzer38:

Where have all the Ju87G gun-camera films gone?

(They did have gun-cameras aboard, didn't they? Wouldn't that explain how some "Luftwaffe-eyewitnesses-only-claims" were "confirmed", by just viewing the "tape"?)

...BTW "some", does that mean, one, two, or thousands? How do you verify a kill from watching a tape?

... </font>

[Hetzer38]

Completly off-topic, but still interesting...and since there was a lot of talking about ships...

Stuka's eye-view of the attack. Beneath an umbrella of anti-aircraft fire the blunt bows of the burning Illustrious are clearly visible, bottom left, as she tries to escape further damage. A light cruiser crosses her wake, top right.

...Shortly after midday on 10 January the ships' radar screens picked up a large formation of enemy aircraft bearing down on them from the north.

The approaching force comprised 43 Ju87s; Major Enneccerus' II./StG 2 in the van, closely attended by Hauptmann Hozzel's I./StG1.

A carefullly timed low-level strike against Valiant by Italian SM.79 torpedo-bombers had drawn off the Illustrious' standing combat air patrol of Fulmar fighters. Now ten of the Stukas peeled off to make diversionary dive-bombing attacks on the two battleships. With the latters' anti-aircraft gunners fully engaged, and a newly launched patrol of Fulmars still desperately clawing for height, the Illustrious was forced to rely solely on her own high-angle batteries for self-protection. But these were unable to prevent the carnage which followed as the Stukas began to circle some 4,000 metres above the vessel, each positioning itself ready for the dive.

Admiral Cunningham, C-inC Mediterranean, witnessed the assault from the bridge of the Warspite: "There was no doubt we were watching complete experts. Formed roughly in a large circle over the fleet they peeled off one by one when reaching the attacking position. We could not but admire the skill and precision of it all. The attacks were pressed home to point-blank range, and as they pulled out of their dives some of them were seen to fly along the flight-deck of the Illustrious below the level of her funnel...

at times, she became completly hidden in a forest of great bomb splashes."

The first bomb struck the carrier just eight minutes after the initial radar sighting. It plunged through a gun position into the ship's hull to explode at water level. The second hit for'ard close to her bows, and a third demolished another gun mounting alongside her bridge island. The fourth smashed directly on to the descending after lift, wreaking havoc among the aircraft on the hangar deck below and knocking out all the after guns. Incredibly, another pilot placed his bomb down the same after lift well two minutes later, adding to the inferno as ammunition and aviation fuel exploded. A sixth and final bomb tore through the armoured flight-deck before detonating deep inside the ship.

Asked to score four direct hits, the Stukas had in fact delivered no less than six, plus three almost equally damaging near misses (one of which, exploding close alongside, had burst open the for'ard lift, fanning the smoke and flames from the after hangar space like a blowtorch along the full length of the ship). But by some miracle her engines had remained untouched. And while damage control parties fought the fires, the Illustrious - steering by main engines only - set course for the dubious haven of Malta. Despite two further attacks she reached the island that same evening and was taken into Valetta dockyard...

[from: Osprey Aviation - Junker Ju 87 over the Mediterranean]

...three Stukas were lost ("missing") in the attacks on the Illustrious on 10th January...

Cheers, Hetzer.

[ March 06, 2007, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]

[Hetzer38]

Completly off-topic, but still interesting...and since there was a lot of talking about ships...

Stuka's eye-view of the attack. Beneath an umbrella of anti-aircraft fire the blunt bows of the burning Illustrious are clearly visible, bottom left, as she tries to escape further damage. A light cruiser crosses her wake, top right.

...Shortly after midday on 10 January the ships' radar screens picked up a large formation of enemy aircraft bearing down on them from the north.

The approaching force comprised 43 Ju87s; Major Enneccerus' II./StG 2 in the van, closely attended by Hauptmann Hozzel's I./StG1.

A carefullly timed low-level strike against Valiant by Italian SM.79 torpedo-bombers had drawn off the Illustrious' standing combat air patrol of Fulmar fighters. Now ten of the Stukas peeled off to make diversionary dive-bombing attacks on the two battleships. With the latters' anti-aircraft gunners fully engaged, and a newly launched patrol of Fulmars still desperately clawing for height, the Illustrious was forced to rely solely on her own high-angle batteries for self-protection. But these were unable to prevent the carnage which followed as the Stukas began to circle some 4,000 metres above the vessel, each positioning itself ready for the dive.

Admiral Cunningham, C-inC Mediterranean, witnessed the assault from the bridge of the Warspite: "There was no doubt we were watching complete experts. Formed roughly in a large circle over the fleet they peeled off one by one when reaching the attacking position. We could not but admire the skill and precision of it all. The attacks were pressed home to point-blank range, and as they pulled out of their dives some of them were seen to fly along the flight-deck of the Illustrious below the level of her funnel...

at times, she became completly hidden in a forest of great bomb splashes."

The first bomb struck the carrier just eight minutes after the initial radar sighting. It plunged through a gun position into the ship's hull to explode at water level. The second hit for'ard close to her bows, and a third demolished another gun mounting alongside her bridge island. The fourth smashed directly on to the descending after lift, wreaking havoc among the aircraft on the hangar deck below and knocking out all the after guns. Incredibly, another pilot placed his bomb down the same after lift well two minutes later, adding to the inferno as ammunition and aviation fuel exploded. A sixth and final bomb tore through the armoured flight-deck before detonating deep inside the ship.

Asked to score four direct hits, the Stukas had in fact delivered no less than six, plus three almost equally damaging near misses (one of which, exploding close alongside, had burst open the for'ard lift, fanning the smoke and flames from the after hangar space like a blowtorch along the full length of the ship). But by some miracle her engines had remained untouched. And while damage control parties fought the fires, the Illustrious - steering by main engines only - set course for the dubious haven of Malta. Despite two further attacks she reached the island that same evening and was taken into Valetta dockyard...

[from: Osprey Aviation - Junker Ju 87 over the Mediterranean]

...three Stukas were lost ("missing") in the attacks on the Illustrious on 10th January...

Cheers, Hetzer.

[ March 06, 2007, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]

[undead reindeer cavalry]

Originally posted by Andreas:

Remember the 50% haircut.

i do remember it. i am aware that Germans didn't trust the numbers reported by pilots. didn't Göring call pilots liars?

As far as the Germans were concerned, the 3,000 were not claims, but awards.

yes i understand it. i am calling them claims because i don't believe in them. perhaps i should call them "awarded kills" to avoid confusion?

There were also other ground attack planes, most notably the Hs 129, but also FW 190 Jabos,

naturally, as discussed on this thread.

and I would think that ordinary bombing would also account for a good number.

massed level bombing from altitude would certainly cause tank losses, but the inaccuracy would limit the kill numbers. no doubt at times intel would give good targets like numerous tanks concentrating on a smallish area for an attack, but other than that i would expect the ground attack planes to be a lot more effective at killing tanks.

[undead reindeer cavalry]

Originally posted by Andreas:

Remember the 50% haircut.

i do remember it. i am aware that Germans didn't trust the numbers reported by pilots. didn't Göring call pilots liars?

As far as the Germans were concerned, the 3,000 were not claims, but awards.

yes i understand it. i am calling them claims because i don't believe in them. perhaps i should call them "awarded kills" to avoid confusion?

There were also other ground attack planes, most notably the Hs 129, but also FW 190 Jabos,

naturally, as discussed on this thread.

and I would think that ordinary bombing would also account for a good number.

massed level bombing from altitude would certainly cause tank losses, but the inaccuracy would limit the kill numbers. no doubt at times intel would give good targets like numerous tanks concentrating on a smallish area for an attack, but other than that i would expect the ground attack planes to be a lot more effective at killing tanks.

[Hetzer38]

BTW, did you know that you can (really) easily download all the YouTube vids by using this (free) Online FLV Converter ?

JU87G "films" (...found so far...)

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m63oJu39EPk(01:47) posted by Tero;

- Stettin, March 1945 - a lone Ju87G (Rudel?)makes two strafing runs on russian tanks,...

* "Stukas in 1945"(01:40);

- Hs129s and Ju87Gs attacking soviet tanks on the snow-covered fields of Pomerania (January/February 1945);

- "Stettin sequence" of the lone Ju87G....slightly better quality then the first vid...

...looks (and sounds) to me that the Ju87G fires 5 shots (bursts?) in the first and 3 shots (bursts?) in the second attack-run...?

* "Documentary on Stukas"(04:18);

- Celebration of 100,000th sortie flown by Stukageschwader 2;

- Ju87Ds dive-bombing and making low-level "Steckrübenwurf" bomb-attacks against soviet armour;

- Rudel making two attack-runs on soviet tanks in his Ju-87G, firing one burst of two rounds during each attack.

* "Rudel vs. Russian tanks"(00:28);

- ...short version of the vid above, just showing Rudel in action...

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg(01:40) posted by ParaBellum;

- February 1943 - battle of the Kuban Bridgehead. Modified Ju87D-3 of "Panzerjagdkommando Weiss" in action against soviet shipping and landing craft (Rudel was credited with destroying 70 of these craft after a month).

- The film shows eight attack runs (one against two targets) of the "Kanonenvögel" against soviet shipping...

Cheers, Hetzer.

[ March 07, 2007, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]

[Hetzer38]

BTW, did you know that you can (really) easily download all the YouTube vids by using this (free) Online FLV Converter ?

JU87G "films" (...found so far...)

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m63oJu39EPk(01:47) posted by Tero;

- Stettin, March 1945 - a lone Ju87G (Rudel?)makes two strafing runs on russian tanks,...

* "Stukas in 1945"(01:40);

- Hs129s and Ju87Gs attacking soviet tanks on the snow-covered fields of Pomerania (January/February 1945);

- "Stettin sequence" of the lone Ju87G....slightly better quality then the first vid...

...looks (and sounds) to me that the Ju87G fires 5 shots (bursts?) in the first and 3 shots (bursts?) in the second attack-run...?

* "Documentary on Stukas"(04:18);

- Celebration of 100,000th sortie flown by Stukageschwader 2;

- Ju87Ds dive-bombing and making low-level "Steckrübenwurf" bomb-attacks against soviet armour;

- Rudel making two attack-runs on soviet tanks in his Ju-87G, firing one burst of two rounds during each attack.

* "Rudel vs. Russian tanks"(00:28);

- ...short version of the vid above, just showing Rudel in action...

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg(01:40) posted by ParaBellum;

- February 1943 - battle of the Kuban Bridgehead. Modified Ju87D-3 of "Panzerjagdkommando Weiss" in action against soviet shipping and landing craft (Rudel was credited with destroying 70 of these craft after a month).

- The film shows eight attack runs (one against two targets) of the "Kanonenvögel" against soviet shipping...

Cheers, Hetzer.

[ March 07, 2007, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]

[civdiv]

Originally posted by ParaBellum:

Here's a link to a YouTube vid showing Ju-87-Gs attacking soviet landing crafts with 37mm cannons. Quality is, unfortunately, not very good. Quite a few misses but also a couple of what looks like direct hits.

What surprises me is that the Stuka pilots are attacking the ships from the side, and not from the front/rear.

I think you can tell the incredible velocity of these rounds by how high the plumes of water are. Based on a LC being about 40 feet long (total swag on my part) some of those plumes appear to be like 120-150 feet high.

civdiv

[civdiv]

Originally posted by ParaBellum:

Here's a link to a YouTube vid showing Ju-87-Gs attacking soviet landing crafts with 37mm cannons. Quality is, unfortunately, not very good. Quite a few misses but also a couple of what looks like direct hits.

What surprises me is that the Stuka pilots are attacking the ships from the side, and not from the front/rear.

I think you can tell the incredible velocity of these rounds by how high the plumes of water are. Based on a LC being about 40 feet long (total swag on my part) some of those plumes appear to be like 120-150 feet high.

civdiv

[John Kettler]

According to this, busting the landing craft shown on the clips constituted the initial combat trials for the Kanonenvogel. Info's under the Rudel bio.

http://www.theeasternfront.co.uk/Aircraft/german/luftwaffeaces.htm

I did a lot of online digging trying to get some data on Russian WW II landing craft, and the best I could find was in VIZh 3/1982 here at Red Army Studies under Wartime Experience in Amphibious Operations, specifically the table on page 27. Tried to copy the text but either am a PDF incompetent or the reader (don't have full version) doesn't support such doings.

http://www.redarmystudies.net/index_sort.htm

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

According to this, busting the landing craft shown on the clips constituted the initial combat trials for the Kanonenvogel. Info's under the Rudel bio.

http://www.theeasternfront.co.uk/Aircraft/german/luftwaffeaces.htm

I did a lot of online digging trying to get some data on Russian WW II landing craft, and the best I could find was in VIZh 3/1982 here at Red Army Studies under Wartime Experience in Amphibious Operations, specifically the table on page 27. Tried to copy the text but either am a PDF incompetent or the reader (don't have full version) doesn't support such doings.

http://www.redarmystudies.net/index_sort.htm

Regards,

John Kettler

[Tero]

Originally posted by Hetzer38:

...looks (and sounds) to me that the Ju87G fires 5 shots (bursts?) in the first and 3 shots (bursts?) in the second attack-run...?

My guess is single shots in rapid succession rather than "controlled bursts" at when in full auto. The boat busting film does show single ranging shots followed by rapid succession shots.

EDIT: after viewing the first vid it could be the full auto Stukas might be D5's with 20mm wing guns. I could not make out the BK37 bulges under the wing.

[ March 07, 2007, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: Tero ]

[Tero]

Originally posted by Hetzer38:

...looks (and sounds) to me that the Ju87G fires 5 shots (bursts?) in the first and 3 shots (bursts?) in the second attack-run...?

My guess is single shots in rapid succession rather than "controlled bursts" at when in full auto. The boat busting film does show single ranging shots followed by rapid succession shots.

EDIT: after viewing the first vid it could be the full auto Stukas might be D5's with 20mm wing guns. I could not make out the BK37 bulges under the wing.

[ March 07, 2007, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: Tero ]

[Sergei]

Keep in mind that these news reels could have been edited out of who knows how many clips, and even if all takes were from the same camera film, the gun camera can't show the plane it is attached to.

[Sergei]

Keep in mind that these news reels could have been edited out of who knows how many clips, and even if all takes were from the same camera film, the gun camera can't show the plane it is attached to.

[Hetzer38]

Originally posted by Sergei:

Keep in mind that these news reels could have been edited out of who knows how many clips,...

That's true Sergei, but the only "real" gun-camera film showing the BK 3,7 at work is the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg(01:40) posted by ParaBellum; and I think there can only be little doubt that this clip shows 37mm HE rounds being fired from several Ju87 "cannonbirds" of "Panzerjagdkommando Weiss" at soviet shipping in the Kuban-area February 1943...

The "Stettin-March-1945" scene (films 1 + 2) shows a Ju87G filmed from the ground, and the "Rudel vs tanks" scene (films 3 + 4) shows a Ju87G filmed from another aircraft, and there's (very) little doubt what kind of aircraft was filmed.

Cheers, Hetzer.

[ March 08, 2007, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]

[Hetzer38]

Originally posted by Sergei:

Keep in mind that these news reels could have been edited out of who knows how many clips,...

That's true Sergei, but the only "real" gun-camera film showing the BK 3,7 at work is the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg(01:40) posted by ParaBellum; and I think there can only be little doubt that this clip shows 37mm HE rounds being fired from several Ju87 "cannonbirds" of "Panzerjagdkommando Weiss" at soviet shipping in the Kuban-area February 1943...

The "Stettin-March-1945" scene (films 1 + 2) shows a Ju87G filmed from the ground, and the "Rudel vs tanks" scene (films 3 + 4) shows a Ju87G filmed from another aircraft, and there's (very) little doubt what kind of aircraft was filmed.

Cheers, Hetzer.

[ March 08, 2007, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]

[John Kettler]

Hetzer38,

I just reviewed the ParaBellum supplied Kuban footage, from which I conclude that most of the passes consisted of 2 x 2 gun salvos (4 rounds total), while one had 3 x 2 gun salvos (6 rounds total), followed by very close range MG fire. The tracers on the BK 3.7 rounds really help when it comes to assessing rate of fire.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Hetzer38,

I just reviewed the ParaBellum supplied Kuban footage, from which I conclude that most of the passes consisted of 2 x 2 gun salvos (4 rounds total), while one had 3 x 2 gun salvos (6 rounds total), followed by very close range MG fire. The tracers on the BK 3.7 rounds really help when it comes to assessing rate of fire.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Hetzer38]

You know what? I finally purchased a used (english) copy of Rudel's book "Stuka Pilot" - in the 2nd hand bookstore down the street...

...and damn it, it's a good read!

I am no good at all in writing summaries, so let's "hear" Rudel's story of the attack on the Marat.

...

On the 16th September Flight Lieutenant Steen summons us to a conference. He explains the military situation and tells us that the particular difficulty holding up the further advance of our armies is the presence of the Russian fleet moving up and down the coast at a certain distance from the shore and intervening in the battles with their formidable naval guns. The Russian fleet is based on Kronstadt, an island in the Gulf of Finland, the largest war harbour in the U.S.S.R. Approximately 12 1/2 miles from Kronstadt lies the harbour of Leningrad and South of it the ports of Oranienbaum and Peterhof. Very strong enemy forces are massed round these two towns on a strip of coast some six miles long. We are told to mark all the positions precisely on our maps so as to ensure our being able to recognize our own front line. We are beginning to guess that these troop concentrations will be our objective when FTt./Lt. Steen gives another turn to the briefing. He comes back to the Russian fleet and explains that our chief concern is the two battleships Marat and Oktobrescaja Revolutia. Both are ships of about 23,000 tons. In addition, there are four or five cruisers, among them the Maxim Gorki and the Kirov, as well as a number of destroyers. The ships constantly change their positions according to which parts of the mainland require the support of their devastating and accurate gunfire.

As a rule, however, the battleships navigate only in the deep channel between Kronstadt and Leningrad.

Our wing has just received orders to attack the Russian fleet in the Gulf of Finland. There is no question of using normal bomber-aircraft, any more than normal bombs, for this operation, especially as intense flak must be reckoned with. He tells us that we are awaiting the arrival of two thousand pounder bombs fitted with a special detonator for our purpose.

With normal detonators the bomb would burst ineffectively on the armoured main deck and though the explosion would be sure to rip off some parts of the upper structure it would not result in the sinking of the ship. We cannot expect to succeed and finish off these two leviathans except by the use of a delayed action bomb which must first pierce the upper decks before exploding deep down in the hull of the vessel.

* Between 16th and 20th September Rudel's unit flew attacks against the Baltic Fleet with 500kg bombs...

On the 21st September our two thousand pounders arrive. The next morning reconnaissance reports that the Marat is lying in Kronstadt harbour. They are evidently repairing the damage sustained in our attack of the 16th. I just see red. Now the day has come for me to prove my ability. I get the necessary information about the wind, etc., from the reconnaissance men.

Then I am deaf to all around me; I am longing to be off. If I reach the target, I am determined to hit it. I must hit it! We take off with our minds full of the attack; beneath us, the two thousand pounders which are to do the job today. Brilliant blue sky, without a rack of cloud. The same even over the sea. We are already attacked by Russian fighters above the narrow coastal strip; but they cannot deflect us from our objective, there is no question of that.

We are flying at 9000 feet; the flak is deadly.

About ten miles ahead we see Kronstadt; it seems an infinite distance away. With this intensity of flak one stands a good chance of being hit at any moment. The waiting makes the time long.

Dourly, Steen and I keep on our course. We tell ourselves that Ivan is not firing at single aircraft; he is merely putting up a flak barrage at a certain altitude. The others are all over the shop, not only in the squadrons and the flights, but even in the pairs. They think that by varying height and zigzagging they can make the A.A. gunners' task more difficult. There go the two blue-nosed staff aircraft sweeping through all the formations, even the separate flights.

Now one of them loses her bomb. A wild helter-skelter in the sky over Kronstadt; the danger of ramming is great. We are still a few miles from our objective; at an angle ahead of me I can already make out the Marat berthed in the harbour. The guns boom, the shells scream up at us, bursting in flashes of livid colours; the flak forms small fleecy clouds that frolic around us. If it was not in such deadly earnest one might use the phrase: an aerial carnival. I look down on the Marat. Behind her lies the cruiser Kirov. Or is it the Maxim Gorki? These ships have not yet joined in the general bombardment. But it was the same the last time. They do not open up on us until we are diving to the attack. Never has our flight through the defence seemed so slow or so uncomfortable.

Will Steen use his diving brakes today or in the face of this opposition will he go in for once "without"? There he goes. He has already used his brakes. I follow suit, throwing a final glance into his cockpit. His grim face wears an expression of concentration.

Now we are in a dive, close beside each other.

Our diving angle must be between seventy and eighty degrees. I have already picked up the Marat in my sights. We race down towards her; slowly she grows to a gigantic size. All their A.A. guns are now directed at us. Now nothing matters but our target, our objective; if we achieve our task it will save our brothers in arms on the ground much bloodshed. But what is happening? Steen's aircraft suddenly leaves mine far behind. He is traveling much faster. Has he after all again retracted his diving brakes in order to get down more quickly? So I do the same. I race after his aircraft going all out. I am right on his tail, traveling much too fast and unable to check my speed. Straight ahead of me I see the horrified face of W.O. Lehmann, Steen's rear-gunner. He expects every second that I shall cut off his tail unit with my propeller and ram him. I increase my diving angle with all the strength I have got - it must surely be 90 degrees - sit tight as if I were sitting on a powderkeg.

Shall I graze Steen's aircraft which is right on me or shall I get safely past and down? I streak past him within a hair's breadth. Is this an omen of success? The ship is centered plumb in the middle of my sights. My Ju 87 keeps perfectly steady as I dive; she does not swerve an inch. I have the feeling that to miss is now impossible.

Then I see the Marat large as life in front of me. Sailors are running across the deck, arrying ammunition. Now I press the bomb release switch on my stick and pull with all my strength. Can I still manage to pull out? I doubt it, for I am diving without brakes and the height at which I have released my bomb is not more than 900 feet. The skipper has said when briefing us that the two thousand pounder must not be dropped from lower than 3000 feet as the fragmentation effect of this bomb reaches 3000 feet and to drop it at a lower altitude is to endanger one's aircraft. But now I have forgotten that! I am intent on hitting the Marat. I tug at my stick, without feeling, merely exerting all my strength.

My acceleration is too great. I see nothing, my sight is blurred in a momentary blackout, a new experience for me. But if it can be managed at all I must pull out. My head has not yet cleared when I hear Schamovski's voice: "She is blowing up, sir!"

Now I look out. We are skimming the water at a level of ten or twelve feet and I bank round a little. Yonder lies the Marat below a cloud of smoke rising up to 1200 feet; apparently the magazine has exploded.

"Congratulations, sir."

Schamovski is the first. Now there is a babel of congratulations from all the other aircraft over the radio. From all sides I catch the words: "Good show!" Hold on, surely I recognize the Wing Commander's voice? I am conscious of a pleasant glow of exhilaration such as one feels after a successful athletic feat. Then I fancy that I am looking into the eyes of thousands of grateful infantrymen. Back at low level in the direction of the coast.

"Two Russian fighters, sir," reports Schamovski.

"Where are they?"

"Chasing us, sir. They are circling round the fleet in their own flak. Cripes!

They will both be shot down together by their own flak."

This expletive and, above all, the excitement in Schamovski's voice are something quite new to me. This has never happened before. We fly on a level with the concrete blocks on which A.A. guns have also been posted.

We could almost knock the Russian crews off them with our wings. They are still firing at our comrades who are now attacking the other ships.

Then for a moment there is nothing visible through the pall of smoke rising from the Marat. The din down below on the surface of the water must be terrific, for it is not until now that a few flak crews spot my aircraft as it roars close past them. Then they swivel their guns and fire after me; all have had their attention diverted by the main formation flying off high above them. So the luck is with me, an isolated aircraft. The whole neighbourhood is full of A.A. guns; the air is peppered with shrapnel. But it is a comfort to know that this weight of iron is not meant exclusively for me! I am now crossing the coast line. The narrow strip is very unpleasant. It would be impossible to gain height because I could not climb fast enough to reach a safe altitude. So I stay down. Past machine guns and flak. Panic-stricken Russians hurl themselves flat on the ground. Then again Schamovski shouts:

"A Rata coming up behind us!"

I look round and see a Russian fighter about 300 yards astern.

"Let him have it, Schamovski!"

Schamovski does not utter a sound. Ivan is blazing away at a range of only a few inches. I take wild evasive action.

"Are you mad, Schamovski? Fire! I'll have you put under arrest." I yell at him!

Schamovski does not fire. Now he says deliberately: "I am holding fire, sir, because I can see a German Me coming up behind and if I open up on the Rata I may damage the Messerschmitt." That closes the subject as far as Schamovski is concerned; but I am sweating with the suspense. The tracers are going wider on either side of me. I weave like mad.

"You can turn round now, sir. The Me has shot down the Rata." I bank round slightly and look back. It is as Schamovski says; there she lies down below. Now a Me passes groggily.

"Schamovski, it will be a pleasure to confirm our fighter's claim to have shot that one down." He does not reply. He is rather hurt that I was not content to trust his judgment before. I know him; he will sit there and sulk until we land. How many operational flights have we made together when he has not opened his lips the whole time we have been in the air.

After landing, all the crews are paraded in front of the squadron tent. We are told by Flt./Lt. Steen that the Wing Commander has already rung up to congratulate the 3rd squadron on its achievement. He had personally witnessed the very impressive explosion. Steen is instructed to report the name of the officer who was the first to dive and drop the successful two thousand pounder in order that he may be recommended for the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross.

With a side-glance in my direction he says: "Forgive me for telling the Kommodore that I am so proud of the whole squadron that I would prefer it if our success is attributed to the squadron as a whole."

In the tent he wrings my hand. "You no longer need a battleship for special mention in despatches," he says with a boyish laugh.

The Wing Commander rings up. "It is sinking day for the 3rd. You are to take off immediately for another attack on the Kirov berthed behind the Marat. Good hunting!" The photographs taken by our latest aircraft show that the Marat has split in two. This can be seen on the picture taken after the tremendous cloud of smoke from the explosion had begun to dissipate.

...

"Twelve hundred feet high rises the cloud of the dying Marat"

"The 'Marat' was literally torn in two by direct hits from our bombs."

Cheers, Hetzer.

[ March 10, 2007, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]

[Hetzer38]

You know what? I finally purchased a used (english) copy of Rudel's book "Stuka Pilot" - in the 2nd hand bookstore down the street...

...and damn it, it's a good read!

I am no good at all in writing summaries, so let's "hear" Rudel's story of the attack on the Marat.

...

On the 16th September Flight Lieutenant Steen summons us to a conference. He explains the military situation and tells us that the particular difficulty holding up the further advance of our armies is the presence of the Russian fleet moving up and down the coast at a certain distance from the shore and intervening in the battles with their formidable naval guns. The Russian fleet is based on Kronstadt, an island in the Gulf of Finland, the largest war harbour in the U.S.S.R. Approximately 12 1/2 miles from Kronstadt lies the harbour of Leningrad and South of it the ports of Oranienbaum and Peterhof. Very strong enemy forces are massed round these two towns on a strip of coast some six miles long. We are told to mark all the positions precisely on our maps so as to ensure our being able to recognize our own front line. We are beginning to guess that these troop concentrations will be our objective when FTt./Lt. Steen gives another turn to the briefing. He comes back to the Russian fleet and explains that our chief concern is the two battleships Marat and Oktobrescaja Revolutia. Both are ships of about 23,000 tons. In addition, there are four or five cruisers, among them the Maxim Gorki and the Kirov, as well as a number of destroyers. The ships constantly change their positions according to which parts of the mainland require the support of their devastating and accurate gunfire.

As a rule, however, the battleships navigate only in the deep channel between Kronstadt and Leningrad.

Our wing has just received orders to attack the Russian fleet in the Gulf of Finland. There is no question of using normal bomber-aircraft, any more than normal bombs, for this operation, especially as intense flak must be reckoned with. He tells us that we are awaiting the arrival of two thousand pounder bombs fitted with a special detonator for our purpose.

With normal detonators the bomb would burst ineffectively on the armoured main deck and though the explosion would be sure to rip off some parts of the upper structure it would not result in the sinking of the ship. We cannot expect to succeed and finish off these two leviathans except by the use of a delayed action bomb which must first pierce the upper decks before exploding deep down in the hull of the vessel.

* Between 16th and 20th September Rudel's unit flew attacks against the Baltic Fleet with 500kg bombs...

On the 21st September our two thousand pounders arrive. The next morning reconnaissance reports that the Marat is lying in Kronstadt harbour. They are evidently repairing the damage sustained in our attack of the 16th. I just see red. Now the day has come for me to prove my ability. I get the necessary information about the wind, etc., from the reconnaissance men.

Then I am deaf to all around me; I am longing to be off. If I reach the target, I am determined to hit it. I must hit it! We take off with our minds full of the attack; beneath us, the two thousand pounders which are to do the job today. Brilliant blue sky, without a rack of cloud. The same even over the sea. We are already attacked by Russian fighters above the narrow coastal strip; but they cannot deflect us from our objective, there is no question of that.

We are flying at 9000 feet; the flak is deadly.

About ten miles ahead we see Kronstadt; it seems an infinite distance away. With this intensity of flak one stands a good chance of being hit at any moment. The waiting makes the time long.

Dourly, Steen and I keep on our course. We tell ourselves that Ivan is not firing at single aircraft; he is merely putting up a flak barrage at a certain altitude. The others are all over the shop, not only in the squadrons and the flights, but even in the pairs. They think that by varying height and zigzagging they can make the A.A. gunners' task more difficult. There go the two blue-nosed staff aircraft sweeping through all the formations, even the separate flights.

Now one of them loses her bomb. A wild helter-skelter in the sky over Kronstadt; the danger of ramming is great. We are still a few miles from our objective; at an angle ahead of me I can already make out the Marat berthed in the harbour. The guns boom, the shells scream up at us, bursting in flashes of livid colours; the flak forms small fleecy clouds that frolic around us. If it was not in such deadly earnest one might use the phrase: an aerial carnival. I look down on the Marat. Behind her lies the cruiser Kirov. Or is it the Maxim Gorki? These ships have not yet joined in the general bombardment. But it was the same the last time. They do not open up on us until we are diving to the attack. Never has our flight through the defence seemed so slow or so uncomfortable.

Will Steen use his diving brakes today or in the face of this opposition will he go in for once "without"? There he goes. He has already used his brakes. I follow suit, throwing a final glance into his cockpit. His grim face wears an expression of concentration.

Now we are in a dive, close beside each other.

Our diving angle must be between seventy and eighty degrees. I have already picked up the Marat in my sights. We race down towards her; slowly she grows to a gigantic size. All their A.A. guns are now directed at us. Now nothing matters but our target, our objective; if we achieve our task it will save our brothers in arms on the ground much bloodshed. But what is happening? Steen's aircraft suddenly leaves mine far behind. He is traveling much faster. Has he after all again retracted his diving brakes in order to get down more quickly? So I do the same. I race after his aircraft going all out. I am right on his tail, traveling much too fast and unable to check my speed. Straight ahead of me I see the horrified face of W.O. Lehmann, Steen's rear-gunner. He expects every second that I shall cut off his tail unit with my propeller and ram him. I increase my diving angle with all the strength I have got - it must surely be 90 degrees - sit tight as if I were sitting on a powderkeg.

Shall I graze Steen's aircraft which is right on me or shall I get safely past and down? I streak past him within a hair's breadth. Is this an omen of success? The ship is centered plumb in the middle of my sights. My Ju 87 keeps perfectly steady as I dive; she does not swerve an inch. I have the feeling that to miss is now impossible.

Then I see the Marat large as life in front of me. Sailors are running across the deck, arrying ammunition. Now I press the bomb release switch on my stick and pull with all my strength. Can I still manage to pull out? I doubt it, for I am diving without brakes and the height at which I have released my bomb is not more than 900 feet. The skipper has said when briefing us that the two thousand pounder must not be dropped from lower than 3000 feet as the fragmentation effect of this bomb reaches 3000 feet and to drop it at a lower altitude is to endanger one's aircraft. But now I have forgotten that! I am intent on hitting the Marat. I tug at my stick, without feeling, merely exerting all my strength.

My acceleration is too great. I see nothing, my sight is blurred in a momentary blackout, a new experience for me. But if it can be managed at all I must pull out. My head has not yet cleared when I hear Schamovski's voice: "She is blowing up, sir!"

Now I look out. We are skimming the water at a level of ten or twelve feet and I bank round a little. Yonder lies the Marat below a cloud of smoke rising up to 1200 feet; apparently the magazine has exploded.

"Congratulations, sir."

Schamovski is the first. Now there is a babel of congratulations from all the other aircraft over the radio. From all sides I catch the words: "Good show!" Hold on, surely I recognize the Wing Commander's voice? I am conscious of a pleasant glow of exhilaration such as one feels after a successful athletic feat. Then I fancy that I am looking into the eyes of thousands of grateful infantrymen. Back at low level in the direction of the coast.

"Two Russian fighters, sir," reports Schamovski.

"Where are they?"

"Chasing us, sir. They are circling round the fleet in their own flak. Cripes!

They will both be shot down together by their own flak."

This expletive and, above all, the excitement in Schamovski's voice are something quite new to me. This has never happened before. We fly on a level with the concrete blocks on which A.A. guns have also been posted.

We could almost knock the Russian crews off them with our wings. They are still firing at our comrades who are now attacking the other ships.

Then for a moment there is nothing visible through the pall of smoke rising from the Marat. The din down below on the surface of the water must be terrific, for it is not until now that a few flak crews spot my aircraft as it roars close past them. Then they swivel their guns and fire after me; all have had their attention diverted by the main formation flying off high above them. So the luck is with me, an isolated aircraft. The whole neighbourhood is full of A.A. guns; the air is peppered with shrapnel. But it is a comfort to know that this weight of iron is not meant exclusively for me! I am now crossing the coast line. The narrow strip is very unpleasant. It would be impossible to gain height because I could not climb fast enough to reach a safe altitude. So I stay down. Past machine guns and flak. Panic-stricken Russians hurl themselves flat on the ground. Then again Schamovski shouts:

"A Rata coming up behind us!"

I look round and see a Russian fighter about 300 yards astern.

"Let him have it, Schamovski!"

Schamovski does not utter a sound. Ivan is blazing away at a range of only a few inches. I take wild evasive action.

"Are you mad, Schamovski? Fire! I'll have you put under arrest." I yell at him!

Schamovski does not fire. Now he says deliberately: "I am holding fire, sir, because I can see a German Me coming up behind and if I open up on the Rata I may damage the Messerschmitt." That closes the subject as far as Schamovski is concerned; but I am sweating with the suspense. The tracers are going wider on either side of me. I weave like mad.

"You can turn round now, sir. The Me has shot down the Rata." I bank round slightly and look back. It is as Schamovski says; there she lies down below. Now a Me passes groggily.

"Schamovski, it will be a pleasure to confirm our fighter's claim to have shot that one down." He does not reply. He is rather hurt that I was not content to trust his judgment before. I know him; he will sit there and sulk until we land. How many operational flights have we made together when he has not opened his lips the whole time we have been in the air.

After landing, all the crews are paraded in front of the squadron tent. We are told by Flt./Lt. Steen that the Wing Commander has already rung up to congratulate the 3rd squadron on its achievement. He had personally witnessed the very impressive explosion. Steen is instructed to report the name of the officer who was the first to dive and drop the successful two thousand pounder in order that he may be recommended for the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross.

With a side-glance in my direction he says: "Forgive me for telling the Kommodore that I am so proud of the whole squadron that I would prefer it if our success is attributed to the squadron as a whole."

In the tent he wrings my hand. "You no longer need a battleship for special mention in despatches," he says with a boyish laugh.

The Wing Commander rings up. "It is sinking day for the 3rd. You are to take off immediately for another attack on the Kirov berthed behind the Marat. Good hunting!" The photographs taken by our latest aircraft show that the Marat has split in two. This can be seen on the picture taken after the tremendous cloud of smoke from the explosion had begun to dissipate.

...

"Twelve hundred feet high rises the cloud of the dying Marat"

"The 'Marat' was literally torn in two by direct hits from our bombs."

Cheers, Hetzer.

[ March 10, 2007, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]

[John Kettler]

Hetzer38,

Seems like a workmanlike detailed combat account to me, let alone one from a dyed in the wool Nazi. Not one mention of the Fuhrer, the Nazi Party or the glories of either. Does your copy of the book have a photo section in it? Later editions had none, greatly detracting from the book's usefulness, IMO.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Hetzer38,

Seems like a workmanlike detailed combat account to me, let alone one from a dyed in the wool Nazi. Not one mention of the Fuhrer, the Nazi Party or the glories of either. Does your copy of the book have a photo section in it? Later editions had none, greatly detracting from the book's usefulness, IMO.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Hetzer38:

"Twelve hundred feet high rises the cloud of the dying Marat"

Well, that must have been like the dying scene performed by Peewee Herrmann in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", considering that it took until 1953 for Marat to be taken out of service. Dying for 12 years...

All the best

Andreas

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Hetzer38:

"Twelve hundred feet high rises the cloud of the dying Marat"

Well, that must have been like the dying scene performed by Peewee Herrmann in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", considering that it took until 1953 for Marat to be taken out of service. Dying for 12 years...

All the best

Andreas