Moon Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 We have just updated the bibliography pages to add some good reading material for CMAK that we found useful so far. If you can't wait to hit the North African desert, Italian shore or paradrop into Crete, check out the CMAK bibliography pages to read up on some of the action there! Martin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubique Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Nice bibliography - most useful. Eric Linklater's 1950s book on the Italian campaign is also good for the British side of things; there have been several reprints and it is widely available on the second-hand market. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donan Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Excellent! Thank you. Need to go dig up some of these titles I have buried somewhere. I love bibliographies by game designers (I use to get so excited on the old OSG boardgames (and a few others) that would always have them in the manuals. Donan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Determinant Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Lovely stuff. Buy Barrie Pitt's 'The Crucible of War'. All three volumes. You owe it to yourself. One of the most readable accounts of the war in the Western Desert which covers both strategy and tactics: the grand view down to the grunt in the shell scrape. I particularly enjoyed the description of the LRDG raid on an Italian airfield where they use a bofors mounted on a truck to destroy a well-fought Italian MG post that had just shot up one of their other trucks. And in true CM style you think: 'Ooooh. Light AAA vehicle-mounted in a ground role? That's a bit gamey' Don't miss it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertram Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Maybe there ought to be a BattleBookBundle? With a real high discount rate? Must be nice reading those and considered to be working. Bertram 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_2 Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 I would put Jon Latimer's book on Alamein in there and not John Bierman & Colin Smith's book on the battle, which is too much like a Ambrose MTV book. Latimer's books is the best modern study on the battle so far I've read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou2000 Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 I've been reading 'An Army at Dawn' for about a week now and its a good book, well worth the money. As the book says it covers North Africa 1942 - 1943 ... but in places you could be forgiven for thinking that nothing happened in Africa before Op Torch. IMHO the book would have been much better as the 2nd volume of the North Africa Campaing, following on from a book that covered the early part of the campaign. The Germans, French, Italians and British Commonwealth countries were all having a damn hard fight amongst each other before 1942 .... Whilst this book doesnt totally ignore that period, it does seem to push it aside as if anything that happened before America was dragged kicking and screaming into WW2 hadn't any meaning !! [ July 04, 2003, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Lou2000 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Hey thanks Moon. Appreciate the thought. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Originally posted by Lou2000: I've been reading 'An Army at Dawn' for about a week now and its a good book, well worth the money. As the book says it covers North Africa 1942 - 1943 ... but in places you could be forgiven for thinking that nothing happened in Africa before Op Torch. IMHO the book would have been much better as the 2nd volume of the North Africa Campaing, following on from a book that covered the early part of the campaign. The Germans, French, Italians and British Commonwealth countries were all having a damn hard fight amongst each other before 1942 .... Whilst this book doesnt totally ignore that period, it does seem to push it aside as if anything that happened before America was dragged kicking and screaming into WW2 hadn't any meaning !! I think this criticism is misplaced. It's like faulting a book about the Battle of Britain because it doesn't have a day-by-day account of the 8th. Air Force. Clue: That's not what the book is about. There are tons of books, many of them excellent, about the Desert War before the American arrived on the scene and got showed up in all their strengths and weaknesses. I strongly encourage people to get and read some of those. Some very interesting things happened in Libya and Egypt between 1940 and 1942, but that happens not to be what Atkins has chosen as his subject. Michael [ July 05, 2003, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: Michael emrys ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou2000 Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Michael, I did actually say that its a good book and worth the money ... and I'm enjoying reading it. Its well written and gives a good account of the time period the book covers .... But (isnt there always a 'but') I stand by what I wrote, that the book would have been better as 'Volume 2'in a series covering the whole campaign ..... to use your Battle of Britain analogy ..... The Battle of Britain lasted from early July '40 - the end of Oct '40, this is like reading about the last 2 months of that battle. I would still reccommend this book but the author has chosen to only tell half the story. I would suggest that most people interested in this campaign would want to know about Rommels arrival in North Africa and his first campaign and about the seige of Tobruk. The fact that the author has only chosen to cover half the campaign is the ONLY thing I find bad about the book ...... what he has covered is done well. I think we both agree on a couple of things... 1. Its a good book ! 2. There was a lot of action in NA in the period before this book. The only point we dont seem to agree on is if this book should be read as a 'stand alone' account of the NA fighting or as the final part of a much bigger picture. Lou 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Originally posted by Lou2000: But (isnt there always a 'but') I stand by what I wrote, that the book would have been better as 'Volume 2'in a series covering the whole campaign ..... to use your Battle of Britain analogy ..... The Battle of Britain lasted from early July '40 - the end of Oct '40, this is like reading about the last 2 months of that battle.I think you missed my point. I have not read the book myself yet (I plan to), but based on the reviews I have read my impression is that the author has chosen to write about the first major commitment of the American army to battle. Whatever else he has included is, I suspect, there to provide context. He isn't trying to write the history of the entire campaign. This is an authorial decision to limit his topic in order to do it justice in the space available to him. I personally have nothing against someone writing a two volume (or ten volume for that matter) history of the whole campaign, including events in Iraq and Iran, Malta, Crete and the rest of the air/sea battle, etc. I have read some books that do more or less that. I would probably read another one if it came out and looked interesting enough. I just can't see why you single out this book (which you admit that you like and consider a good value) to criticize for being a sheep instead of a goat. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurent_Lavail Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 An excellent book about the 21. Panzer Division : Title : 21 PANZER DIVISION Autor : Jean Claude Perrigault Isbn : 2-84048-157-X Editeur : Edts HEIMDAL Years of publication : 2003 Pages : 527 Prix : 58 Euros 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Bluebottle Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Interesting. This meant to be a definitive or merely a selective list of what is currently available? I do hope you haven't neglected the various official histories? While they may have their faults, they are generally an excellent source for what occurred and as to why they happened. While I admit the emphasis must be, by the nature of the game on armour, I do hope Infantry hasn't been neglected? They had an important role to play, particularly in the first year or so of the war. I also hope that Italian East Africa, Syria and Iraq hasn't been neglected. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted July 6, 2003 Author Share Posted July 6, 2003 It's a selective list, Private. There's no point in even trying to put a definitive list in my view, as there are sooo many books out there, and so many good ones, too. The list is supposed to give some pointers of where to start reading to people who'd like to find out more about the theater, history and maybe some tactics. Martin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Black_Devil Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Thanks for the bibliography! Are there any books you guys can reccomend (preferably in English) that comprehensively cover Italian Armour? It'd be nice if there was a book like Chamberlain & Ellis' "Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two" that covered Italian armour with as much detail. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Originally posted by Lou2000: The only point we dont seem to agree on is if this book should be read as a 'stand alone' account of the NA fighting or as the final part of a much bigger picture. Lou No it should not be read as a "'stand alone' account of the NA fighting", as it is instead filling a fine spot as the first in a planned series of three books about the United States Army in WWII. You should not labor under the opinion that "An Army at Dawn" is an attempted swing at a comprehensive history of the North African Theater that has missed its mark - it is more narrow in scope with respect to that theater, and since I just read it over my 4th of July vacation I can give my opinion that it hit its mark quite well, and quite enjoyably. -dale [ July 09, 2003, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: dalem ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dook Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 As dalem notes, An Army at Dawn is the first in a planned trilogy examining the role of the US Army in the European theater (including N. Africa) during WWII. The next book will focus on Sicily and Italy and the third on Normandy and the drive into Germany. The books are not intended to cover the entire Allied effort (although Atkinson does devote sig. space to the Brits and the Kiwis in Army at Dawn) or even the entire American effort - the Navy and the USAAF play only bit parts in Army at Dawn. Atkinson's prose can occasionally be a bit overwrought and he is sometimes a little heavy-handed in his attempts to lay the ground work for volumes 2 & 3 and push his argument that the N. Africa campaign was the beginning of the US Army's "coming of age," but the book is well worth the read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoop88 Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 FYI, Amazon is bundling "Army At Dawn" and "Desert War: The North African Campaign 1940-43" together and giving free shipping. So if you buy the bundle, you can read about the entire campaign in Alan Moorehead's book and focus on the American part of the campaign in "Army At Dawn." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Nobody's mentoned that Joseph Heller's black comedy classic "Catch 22" is set in the WWII Med theater! Now that book'll tell you ALL you need to know about warfighting! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzBaby Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 'Spike' Milligan's Tunisian and Italian affairs are always a good read, er laugh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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