The basics.

[RSColonel_131st]

Hi Chaps! I suckered an american friend of mine into playing CMBB while he was visiting me here in Austria, and today we played a few TCP/IP Games...Mechanized Infantry for both sides, no tanks, small maps, little arty.

Very basic games, to learn very basic tactical ideas.

Since I'm bored at the moment, I decided to wrie him a nice email with a lot of small, basic things to keep in mind. But then, why keep it to an email if this may help other players here as well?

So, I'm not intending to write something along JasonCs line of Quality here. If you have played Combat Mission for three months+ then most likely this post will not be for you. But if you're new, you may get some ideas out of it.

So, first things first.

Obviously, a game starts with buying forces.

For the Defence: You never want to be without some kind of Anti-Armor Defense. Unless you absolutly know that the enemy will bring pure infantry, or that you will be sitting in woodland unpassable to any vehicles.

So, bring at least an Anti Tank Rifle against Halftracks or armored Scout Cars. Or a Tankhunter Team, Pioneers with Destruction Charges, anything. A small mortar MAY do the job if you're lucky (I took a T-26 out once with a 50mm mortar).

If you dont do, you end up like my friend today...losing a game to three armored scout cars that cleared two sections of trench packed with infantry - a defense that would have broken most of my Infantry Guys easily.

Likewise, if you are assaulting, even in a small 500 point game you may want to bring some armored vehicles. Even the most basic halftrack will be able to break an infantry stalemate in your favor.

On the other hand, Canons can be very useless for the attacker unless you either tow them around, or you have a map with LOTS of open LOS. Otherwise they end up sitting in the setup-zone without ever seeing the enemy.

If you want speedy recon, bring one or two jeeps (two jeeps for 1,5 companys infantry would be average).

HMGs can be similar to canons in their usefullness and faultiness. A HMG in a good position makes a lot of difference, but a HMG in a bad position will be too slow to advance in time. You might want to use them in combination with the jeeps.

Get some arty, while you're at it. 81mm Offboard Mortars are very usefull in disrupting infantry attacks and laying down large smoke screens. They are quicker as well, compared to the large calibres.

If you are not sure that you will have LOS from the attack-setup zone, you may prefer a radio spotter so he can embark on a vehicle and ride into battle. Otherwise they are hellish slow.

Setup:

For both the defender and attacker: Stop trying to defend/attack the whole lenght of the map. I made this error, my friend made this error, and thus I assume lots of new people make the same error.

The target of a mission is to either take or defend objectives - symbolized by flags. If you have three flags and take two, you already lead in points. Or, if you take a 300 point flag and leave two 100 point flags well alone, you still lead in points.

So, the germans called that "Schwerpunktbildung" or "Axis of attack" for you english speakers.

As the defender, you select a majority of objectives located in usefull ground, and set up there. Tight. Dont stretch your squads all across the frontline, or they will be too thin to withstand the enemy onslaught. You can use a few split-squads as outposts beyond your main defense position, but that's about it.

Select defense positions forward and around the objectives - make sure that you have adequate flank protection (that's a necessarity if you can not defend the whole front line - and you never can, unless you have a king tiger on a hill with 2 km open ground around him).

Another common mistake seems to be that people set up their defenses in nice geometric positions. Straight line of trenches with wired sections in between and such.

Forget that. You want to set up somewhere in good cover (houses, forrest, etc) with a large, clear field of fire towards the enemy side. You want to catch him in open ground. It's usually a good idea to leave the first line of houses empty - because that's where his direct fire HE-Chuckers can hit you most easily. For kicks and giggles, you can mine these houses (place a minefield close to the wall into the enemy side) and watch him panic when he tries to enter.

Set the heavy weapons a little back to your main line of infantry - they have the range, and will survive longer that way. Interconnect your defense positions...for example, allow trench troops to retreat into a house next to them without running over open ground. Leaving a trench means leaving the best cover you ever get, but behind that house you may be out of sight from the real bad guys...sitting it out in the trench is not always an option.

Even more so for foxholes...

Keep your forces hidden so the attacker will not know where you are - and they will hold their fire till the attacker is in the kill zone.

You can, of course, setup some unhidden outposts ahead - that's also a good place for artillery FOs, because they have good optics, they are hard to see, and they have good LOS into the enemy advance.

For the attacker, you likewise want to find a point of attack that A) promises you to get the majority of objectives, and has suitable terrain for your purpose. Now, if you had superior long-range armor, that would be open ground.

But for mechanized infantry, it's woods, trees, bushes and walls you want to advance trough.

Again, pack tightly. Check for flank defenses. Determine spots for your heavy weapons from where they can use their superior range to shoot at the enemy without reciving too much fire in return.

Prepare scout troops. Either use split squads - or if you want fast scouting, use split squads on jeeps - or HMG-Sections on jeeps. Place them ahead of your main body, and keep the main body hidden till your scouts clear the way.

Onwards to the game itself:

As defender, you want to remain hidden as long as possiple. Idealy, you want to have the enemy troops in open ground, 100 to 150 meters in front, while still being hidden to his eye.

Then, concentrate fire on a few selected squads, and let them have it. If, for example, your platoon of four groups with a HMG next to it faces 6 or 7 enemy squads, then disperse your fire between 3 or 4 of them. That way you have a high chance of instantly pinning them for one or two turns, and you will only recive fire from the remaining forces. So, instead of a shooting match 4 to 7, you now have a match 4 to 4 or better. While the first few groups are down, switch fire to the others...now they will go down. Rinse and repeat.

The idea is to BREAK his morale the first moment you open fire. You dont want to blink away happily at single soldiers, because eventually he will bring in more infantry and outnumber you. You dont shoot to kill, you shoot to panic and surpress (killing comes automatically). And that works best at short range, and when the enemy has a clear cover disadvantage.

Now, as attacker, you want to avoid that. You want to SCOUT ahead. So, you mount some troops in some vehicles, and send them ahead fast...but keep them near cover. Recon Troops are Suicide Squads, but that doesn't mean you want to waste them. Recon will draw fire, but hopefully always be close enough to cover to survive.

Drawing fire actually is what shows you the enemy positions.

Favorite tactic of mine would be to drive the vehicles as far as safely possiple, keep them behind some obstacles, and then dismount the half squads and have them advance trough the obstacles.

Vehicles will always be easier spotted than infantry. Some people dont realize that when they first play CMBB. So if you use soft vehicles, try to keep them in cover. Or speed them trough possiple lines of fire. Dismount the infantry early enough - you dont want to see a squad blazing into flames when a truck gets hit by an HE-Gun.

For the defender, if you see scouts coming up - either motorized or on foot - make it a point to use the least possiple force to take them out. You dont want your full defense line to reveal themself just for one jeep. Once the scout is down, relocate the group/gun/ATR if you can. In a good defense network they should be able to sneak a little around without being seen.

Of course, an outpost line does not have to remain hidden for long. That's why you make them outposts firsthand.

So, the first "game in the game" usually will be scouts versus outpost lines. If the defender kills the scouts without revealing too much of his positions, he already is a good way into winning.

Contrary, if the attacking scouts get to see full incoming fire from the whole defense line, then they will be dead...but the defender has lost a major advantage.

As the attacker, once you have a first picture of the enemy defense outlay, you may want to somehow separate his defenses. Smoke works well for that. Or simple use landscape features. You want to attack that part of the defense that is weakest, and without the other sections partizipating.

Again, it comes down to local odds. If you manage to take on enemy troops bit by bit, with the full force of your own weapons, then you'll win.

Anyone having seen Band of Brothers should be familiar with this idea...the capture of the Guns in Normandy is a perfect example of rolling up a large defense force bit by bit from the side, using their own trenches while doing so.

So, the second "game in the game" is somehow managing local odds.

That's also the reason why you "keyhole" heavy weapons. If you place an AT-Gun on a hill, it will be able to fire on the whole map. But everyone will be able to fire back, too.

Contrary to that, if you place an AT-Gun at the end of a narrow street, then everyone entering at the other side of that street is toast - the gun also doesn't have to rotate very long, so it shoots quickler, too.

You dont want guns/HMGs that can be surrounded or fired at by 6, 7 enemy units at once.

How to break a Keyhole leads us to the third "game in the game" - for every nail the right hammer.

It may be pretty obvious, but many people still dont understand the concept when they first play CMBB - I didn't either.

But for every weapon on the battlefield, there's a perfect counter weapon. This is especially pronounced with mechanized infantry and tank support, as well as with Anti-Tank Guns and Maschineguns on the defense.

Simple as that:

You spot an ATG - You want an Infantry Platoon to take it out. Or, preferable, a mortar if you can get one. Yeah, ATGs still can shoot up infantry, and if they have russian canister rounds even more so - but they are not hard to surpress, and they dont fire while surpressed.

Or, the second case: You spot an HMG/heavy defended line of infantry trench - you want an armored car or tank to take it out. Or a mortar (they are REALLY usefull, huh?)

It's very basic, but fundamental to understand: Weapons that kill tanks make good infantry targets - weapons that kill infantry make good tank targets. There are a few exceptions, but ut generally holds true.

And here we have the most basic, most fundamental difficulty in combined arms. The defender wants to setup a screen that will interweave AT-Weapons with Anti-Personal weapons.

Likewise, the attacker wants to advance with a group of infantry and armored vehicles, carefully avoiding to serve the defender with the correct target type for his units.

So, that's it for now. I may edit the post later because I'm sure I'll come up with more basics.

The rules here should apply to all forms of Combat Mission (CMBO, CMBB, CMAK), or actually most Wargames out there.

[farmerch]

excellent post. thx.

[JasonC]

It is mostly good advice. I will only quibble with a few related items, that seem to me to teach bad habits.

You mention at one point that 81mm mortars are useful for breaking up an infantry attack (as well as smoke) and arrive faster than heavier stuff. I think new players gravitate toward them because the low response time makes them somewhat easier to get some use out of. But they are not very effective even when they do hit. Not compared to the heavy stuff.

Relying on them is a bad habit, a newbie rut. Instead of learning how to use arty that has significant delay, it teaches them to settle for quite limited arty effects. Good human opponents will not be limited to such small scale arty effects. They will bring down 120mm and 150mm stuff right where it is needed. Which is a night and day difference compared to pinpricking with 81s.

Similarly for the advice about towed guns and HMGs. You basically find they are hard to use because LOS from the set up zone might be limited. But actually, these "heavy weapons" give some of the highest "bang for the buck" payoffs possible in CM. Yes, it is some work to learn how to place them effectively, and to move them around. By not bothering to try a new player can make his initial job easier. But the price is, he "passes" on some of the best bargains there are.

Units that can move about easily are forgiving of mistakes. If you put a T-34 in the wrong spot and it can't see much, you just give it a movement order and next turn it is somewhere else. Put a towed 76mm gun in the wrong place and it is not so easy to correct. But the 76mm costs half as much and hides better as well. Someone who isn't going to put it in the wrong spot can sometimes get twice as much out.

There is nothing wrong with using 81s and not relying too much on heavy weapons when you are starting out and learning the ropes. But know that you are putting something off, that there is a "200 level course" to follow where such habits are going to have to be unlearned. Or, challenge yourself to get real use out of a towed gun or a large caliber line FO. See if you can make one pay.

One last item concerns jeeps and the like. They are best used to help reposition heavy weapons, particularly on the attack. See, thing is, you either have good LOS from spots you can start in or you do not. If you do, you set up heavy weapons there. If you do not, then it means not much can see your set up zone from the enemy side of the field, either. Which means you have covered routes forward. That is where the thin-skinned transports come in - moves across "dead ground" that the enemy can't see at all.

As for jeeps for recon, other than the above dead-ground crossing speed up, I think it is a bad idea. Half squads are better at it. Jeeps die far too easily. You might think, "but ah, if they draw fire at least I find something out", but it is not really so. Very light stuff can kill them, even at range. And very light stuff is stealthy stuff. You get a sound contact from light AA, or ATRs, or MGs, 400 yards away. This tells you just about nothing.

The best scouts are infantry. The next best are AFVs thick enough that only big guns can kill them, guns big enough that you can see them a mile away when they fire. You might lose such a tank. But if you've got a mortar standing by you can kill the gun that did it. This won't happen if you send a thin halftrack, because the enemy can keep his big guns hiding and open up with a light AA instead. Which you won't see.

Expecting to discover everything because it opens fire prematurely is something of a "stupid AI trick". It is another potential bad habit one can get into, if you play too much against the AI rather than decent humans. Humans open fire when they have a real opportunity to hurt something, or with only limited stealthy assets (to slow you down without revealing things), or best case and what the attacker must work for - because there is a real threat developing to his defenders if he doesn't. For example, that large amounts of infantry will get into cover right nearby. Or that a whole platoon of tanks will get onto a ridge that sees half of his position, and then will dump 76mm HE into every treeline.

Last I notice on piece of advice that strikes me as just plain wrong. This was the advice to put FOs out in front as part of your screen. I think this is a very bad idea. It puts you in a position where you must use your arty early or risk losing it, because the FO is going to be overrun. The attraction is obviously the FOs ability to hit attackers without showing himself. But it is much more important to have arty late, than to harass from hiding early.

Arty mostly breaks things, it doesn't typically wipe units out to the last man. 5 minutes later it has had little effect. The earlier you expend it, the longer the other guy has to rally from its effects. The best time to hit someone with arty is not turn 3 as he creeps toward your exposed FO with his scouts, but at the climax of a firefight, with the rival infantries in contact. You break them then and your own infantry, freed from reply fire, unsuppresses and turns it into a rout.

Save a blast of FO ammo from the second half of the fight, and you will see quite clearly what I mean. Also, knowing there is enemy arty out there that hasn't come down yet, restricts how much the other guy can bunch up, and the like. It induces caution. Don't be too quick to throw that away. Put FOs is *safe* locations with decent LOS. Avoid obvious places that can hold large numbers of defenders, because those are the most likely to draw enemy arty. An FO doesn't need a lot of space, and can hide in any decent concealment terrain (e.g. even a lone tile of scattered trees).

I hope this helps. Everything else was sound advice.

[ January 25, 2004, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: JasonC ]

[RSColonel_131st]

I agree on heavier Arty and Heavy Weapons. Eventually, a player should learn to use those...it sure took me a while, but I'm getting there.

As for recon...if you want to scout for a mechanized advance, then your recon has to be mechanized. Even if the jeep gets eventually whacked, you still have a dismounted half squad ahead - but it can not lead the attack on foot, doing so would slow down armor and halftracks.

If you know how to move them, it works well enough. Within one or two turns the main force can move up to the scouts, destroy the outpost that's blocking their advance, and the scouts can continue - well, that's the theory anyway.

Also, humans make mistakes. While in general a player can stay stealthy while whacking scouts, there's a high chance he'll have forgotten to hide a certain unit, or perhabs has moved an unit and not given a new hide command etc...

Well, that's how it works for me anyway. Mehcnaized scouts ahead, if they get pinned the main force will have some weapons that can flatten the outpost without revealing itself, and off goes the scout again. That's also a "game in the game" for me...

As for forward FOs...keep in mind that these are usually 81mm Mortar ones.

If you manage to drop it right onto the advance, you can kill or route two platoons, and right there you just won half the battle.

I have killed up to 70 enemy infantry with a single mortar strike. That's 70 less into the main attack.

[Dawg Bonz]

Thank you RSColonel_131st & JasonC for the excellent advice. This is just what I was looking for.

I was recently looking for some old posts in the JasonC anthology of tactics & strategy. Maybe someday JasonC will compile his CM principles treatise and publish it? Maybe a good time would be for the CMX2 release?

One ‘bad’ novice habit (JasonC noted that I developed) was only playing AI with FOW set at partial. Bad mistake.

I only recently started human opponent PBEM games. While the human opponent could not be a nicer fellow, has been very entertaining and contributive to my learning, my novice partial FOW error has made these ‘extreme’ FOW PBEM games formidable.

I am retreating to playing AI with smaller battles at ‘extreme’ FOW. I am hoping that this remedial education and these essential posts will help me become a improved CM participant.

Thank you RSColonel_131st for starting this thread.

[JasonC]

70 men with a single 81mm FO is a stupid AI trick. Sure I've done it too - with 3 strips of wire and a single covered route e.g. But it only happens against the brain dead. Expecting to get this kind of result with light arty is a perfect example of a bad habit, something that one winds up needing to "unlearn" as soon as one plays against real opposition.

Good humans move when they see the spotting round. They don't put a company in the same 2x3 tile woods. You won't get off more than 75 rounds - a minute and a half - before the beaten zone has only 1 pinned or panicked squad left inside it. In that period you will hit half a dozen guys and pin a single platoon.

An 81mm FO is good for 2-3 such blasts. But 3 minutes later the remaining effect is tiny. You've spent a platoon's worth of ammo, counting attacker odds. If you haven't permanently eliminated that much, you've made the remaining odds steeper.

To make 81s pay against humans, you need to get something out of that 2 minutes of pin. Like have it occur during an infantry firefight, or use it to reposition your force, or recover or keep a key piece of terrain at the right moment. There are things 81s can do that repay their cost. But just blasting advancing infantry early, in the hope of killing well more than the FO cost, is not one of them. Not against anybody with half a brain (which the AI does not have).

Whereas, 105mm to 120mm stuff can reduce a platoon to broken half squads with a minute and a half of fire. 150mm stuff can reduce a platoon to one broken half squad with that much - or break a platoon with modest losses with a single flight of shells.

Big arty annihilates. Light arty only annoys, against anybody who knows not to bunch up and to dodge when they see the spotting round (or first half minute of fire in the case of TRPs). This is especially true against dug in defenders.

[JasonC]

In re compile strategy posts and publish it, yes I'd like to do that. I need to find the time, but it is something I'd like to do. Thanks for the kind comments BTW.

[RSColonel_131st]

Okay, that friend of mine dropped 105mm german Arti on my trenches today.

Now I'm a beliver in big guns...sitting under that kind of fire was NOT fun, and he actually took out my left-hand AT-Gun (he just didn't use the left flank later, big mistake).

[JasonC]

If you think that is nasty, try 150s on attackers in trees, without even foxholes. TRPs to arrive fast. Airbursts. If you haven't seen it you won't believe it. And you will never go back to 81mm pinpricks.

[manchildstein (ii)]

the 81mm onboard and offboard are best at taking out guns... as for HMG or 75/76mm IGs on the attack... they're excellent... not really that difficult to move forward if necessary in my experience...

once... i had about 8 of the 75mm IG ('battalion support plus regimental battery') in an attack... i was on an orchard board... stealthily i moved the infantry guns forward, perhaps 100-200 metres behind the leading infantry... when contact was gained... the opponent was quite surprised to learn there were so many 75mm guns beaded in on his position... when his KV2 showed up... it lost its gun on the first shot from one of my 75s...

75/76mm "IG"... bread and butter baby...

[manchildstein (ii)]

if you would like to see heavy, heavy artillery, play with rarity off.. sure spices things up when you're attacking someone who has TRPs about and a 210mm FO... grins

[Redwolf]

Devastating mortar fire can be achieved with mortar carriers and a HQ spotting for them.

You have a *lot* more accuracy, instant targetting and can even be fine-controller by issuing move commands with delay to do half a turn of fire.

[manchildstein (ii)]

Originally posted by redwolf:

Devastating mortar fire can be achieved with mortar carriers and a HQ spotting for them.

You have a *lot* more accuracy, instant targetting and can even be fine-controller by issuing move commands with delay to do half a turn of fire.

i would yet save the halftracks' ammo for targetting guns as a priority over regular infantry.. if i were satisfied the gun threat were non-existent, or that i had other assets to deal with those... i would use the mortar rounds against other targets....

edit: let me expound upon this mortar/gun relationship in cmbb... in my experience the mortars are very good at taking out guns... even the 50mm mortars are very good for this... so for example in 1941.. in cmbb the german 50mm mortar becomes a 'gun killing' unit... while in sl/asl the 50mm was nearly useless... in cmbb it becomes an integral part of a player's 'anti gun assets'... time and time again, i've seen both onboard 50mm and 81/82mm take out guns with relative ease... this is why i try and reserve their ammo for use against guns...

[ January 27, 2004, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: manchildstein (ii) ]

[JasonC]

Mortar HTs are great - if you don't have to pay big rariety premiums for them. The only other trouble with them is sometimes getting a map with no defilade in the initial set up zone. They have enough ammo to target anything you've fully IDed, if you want to. But they are not a substitute for large caliber FOs. They are just a useful way of getting "heavy weapons" overwatch firepower, that is a bit more mobile than foot 81s.

[jep]

I have done some research with CMBB artillery.

If you are playing no rarity games, buy some soviet constript 210 mm arty spotters. I dont remenber actual killing radius, but killing radius for 305 mm artyshell should have 40-50 meters. You should expect that 305 mm artyspotter's killing area is 110 (length) * 60 (width) meters.

How arty kills:

1) Enemy unit either dies of flees when artyrounds hits nearby.

2) Fleeing enemy dies very easily.

You may alse consider to buy some 300 mm rocket spotters. Unfornately rocket strike is too fast that enemy units had time to flee and die.

You should be able to target (with 210 mm spotters) the most important places where your opponents AT -guns (or infanry) migth be hiding. I recommend that you prelan your arty barrage so that it takes about 15-20 turns from the start to the end of your artybarrage (a single spotter shoots about 5 minutes). Do not start shooting at the first round! You should also use seemigly random pattern so that it becomes harder for your opponent to move his reservers to resist yor attac.

Also, artyshells should be triking as near of your advancing troops as possible thus you want to meet enemy infanry supressed and hopefully routing. In this way your barrage also hit troops your opponent has move to resist your attac.

[Redwolf]

The point about the mortar halftracks is that they have a lot of ammo in CM, as opposed to the infantry mortars except the 3" one. But yes, not every map fits them.

If you want to do training to play against humans, playing against the AI, do this:

1) focus on artillery (well, the point is moot if BFC doesn't fix artillery prices, but let's assume they do)

It makes by far the most difference. Try to use your artillery as effectively as possible. Try to do defend with not much more than spotters.

2) do not play with lower quality units for you or higher quality units for the AI.

If you do that, you distort your sense of command delays, hit probabilities, bogging and how much fire your units can take.

If you give the AI better units you distort your sense of tank duels. The moment you are in LOS the probabilities take over from player skill and if you bump the AI's hit probability you don't develop a sense of when it is time to move in for the kill.

It might make sense to give yourself lower quality spotters to make a better training experience, if you can adjust later.

It might make sense you give the AI better infantry, but not better tanks, guns and gun-armed vehicles. You need to mentally adjust to their better push against fire later, but it makes training harder.

It probably make sense to give the AI lots of the best artillery you can, but still don't expect realistic results.

3) do not give the AI more units

Again, this distorts your feeling for the probabilities involved. If you face three tanks everywhere where you would face one or two tanks with a human opponent, you don't have a realistic distribution of combat outcomes anymore.

4) use slow forces, use forces that require you to plan ahead

Slow tanks. Towed guns. Slow-turret tanks. Weakened infantry. Low-quality spotters.

This is not a realistic tradeoff training, but it teaches you hard to think ahead. Just remember to mix it with normal games.

5) bring lots of units that don't use

Huh? What I mean is that you get a bunch of 81mm more than you need, so that everytime you want to do an assault under smoke in a tactical situation you have some left. The CM engine doesn't allow any resupply or editing the units once the games started.

But imagine you come up a situation where you want to compared different ways of solving it. All the tools should still be available so that you can reload a few times and compare results. It would be very tedious to recreate the whole situation in the map editor later.

Units for which this applies:

- smoke spotters

- transport/APCs

- heavy weapons

By extension you can also overstock tanks and infantry to do the comparison and get a feeling for mechanisms involved. Just don't be tempted to skip the situation part where your understrength platoon has to do something without help.

Compare the result of them doing it without help to various forms of help, so that you later have an idea what support you need and where you might need it.

%%

Overall, playing against the AI should be done in a manner that you focus extremely hard not to lose any of your forces. Try to preserve every single man. If you screw up and lose a bunch, reload and try again until you get rid of the threat without losses. But give the AI

That is the only training preparing you in a manner that doesn't distort your sense.

If you shoot up a 200% reinforced AI and always score a victory it is less than useless. The tradeoffs you went through are different.

If you shoot up the elite AI and get good enough to do it with green French tankettes, it is less than useless. Because your sense of when and how to attack an enemy units is distorted.

[Dawg Bonz]

Thanks for your AI Training tips redwolf.

I see what you mean about BIG artillery.

Plenty of fun to see the big bore guns deliver significant virtual whacks! Jason was right, "Big arty annihilates."

Now … practice, practice, practice….

[Denwad]

yeah come to think about it the only time I've attacked with Italians and won ( the only game with Italians that I've won ) is when I bought a 149mm FO