Lady Roxanne Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Which is the best...for the anti-armor fight? Preliminary testing SEEMS to show that grenades will cause buttoned armor to be destroyed or abandoned anywhere from two to four times sooner (by number of tossed weapons) than molotov cocktails. If this is true, and I think it is, shouldn't our trusty Tac AI throw the grenades first? I've yet to see an instance where grenades were thrown BEFORE the molotov supply was exhausted. Should grenades be more deadly to armor than molotovs anyway? [ May 21, 2003, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: CrankyKris ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Molotovs are actually a pretty useless weapon against anything. Including personnel. The only way they could possibly destroy a vehicle is if they were to ignite a leaky fuel line or maybe some exposed propellant on an artillery vehicle. Otherwise some burning gasoline splashed on a tank won't do much. Grenades can break stuff. They also simulate the crew jumping on the deck and dropping one down the hatch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: Molotovs are actually a pretty useless weapon against anything. Including personnel. The only way they could possibly destroy a vehicle is if they were to ignite a leaky fuel line or maybe some exposed propellant on an artillery vehicle. Otherwise some burning gasoline splashed on a tank won't do much. Grenades can break stuff. They also simulate the crew jumping on the deck and dropping one down the hatch. Werent the rear engine panels in early war AFV's a lot more open than later war (as in, only covered with a grate)? Also, and this is just me, but I would bet that if you had a Molotov burst on the front of your tank, breathing inside the bloody thing might be a bit difficult in those tanks without closed ventilation systems. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Early war tanks likely were more vulnerable to them. Their engine grills were fairly open from what i've seen. Even still unless there was a fuel leak, which early Panthers in particular were known to suffer from quite badly, it would be difficult to actually destroy a tank with one. Barring the fuel leak, at best it could burn up a belt in the engine immobilizing the tank. In many circumstances a mobility kill is almost as good as a catastrophic kill so that might be good enough. I've made molotovs and found them to be spectacularly useless. I'm not sure what the Russians filled theirs with but I suspect it was similar to napalm to make it stick to the target. Homemade gasoline ones don't do a damned thing. The flames go out in at most 10 seconds and don't burn especially hot. I threw 5 of them against a stack of card board in my fire pit and couldn't get it to stay light. These were the burning rag top gasoline filled types. (yes I'm well aware of the foolishness of such behavior) Mine weren't nearly as advanced as factory made Russian ones but they have the same effect. In short, molotovs are more of a morale boost to the guy carrying it than a danger to the enemy. I wouldn't trust them to stop a kid on a mo-ped. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Agreed on molotov's. Great against open top vehicles, or early war tanks. Anything heavier? Better off with grenades. And with grenades, I dont know what it is about platoon headquaters, but they have magical plasma sticky grenades that are magic for taking out tanks! Thats my biggest frustration with the russians, they have no good anti-tank weapons that come with the squads. Germans get all sorts of toys, but even in '45 the Russians only have nades and cocktails. But thats life . . . Chad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Here I am stuck in the middle with you... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Thats my biggest frustration with the russians, they have no good anti-tank weapons that come with the squads. Germans get all sorts of toys, but even in '45 the Russians only have nades and cocktails. But thats life . . . At least after 43' the Soviet tank hunter teams start getting the RPG Grenade. That tiny little terror will lay the smake down on the heaviest of german tanks. And their are pioneer squads at the longer range (45-meters) soviet flame thrower too. Equipment wise, I think the Russians are getting short changed a bit in the AT weapon department. They did have an AT Grenade at the start of the war called RPG-40. RPG 43 and RPG 40 [ May 22, 2003, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Nippy ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: I've made molotovs and found them to be spectacularly useless. I'm not sure what the Russians filled theirs with but I suspect it was similar to napalm to make it stick to the target. Homemade gasoline ones don't do a damned thing. The flames go out in at most 10 seconds and don't burn especially hot. I threw 5 of them against a stack of card board in my fire pit and couldn't get it to stay light. These were the burning rag top gasoline filled types. (yes I'm well aware of the foolishness of such behavior) DONT TRY THIS AT HOME . . . BUT . . . I understand that if you mix a little Tide dry laundry detergent with the gasoline, it sticks to the target remarkably well. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 This also tends to make them burn longer. Having burning gas on your tank might not destroy it but it will often make the crew freak out and leave. Don't underestimate the power of the "OH S*** WE'RE ON FIRE!" factor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatEtr Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Ok.....now.....what about a pipebomb? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEN Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 We made a few molotows in the army, and as far as I remember they were made with 1/3 gasoline and 2/3 diesel. This would ensure a longer period of burning. Still, pretty useless stuff:) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 The Finnish standard in 1939 was to use app. half litre bottle. You could use petrol, wood alcohol, a mixture of petrol and kerosene or a mixture of wood alcohol and kerosene. To create smoke, 1-2 cubic centimetres of tar was put into each bottle. Then it was corked, the cork taped into place, and two fuse sticks taped into the sides. The original pre-war thinking was that it could be used to block the vision of the tank with smoke, but with experience it was learned that throwing it to the back of a Russian tank would set the engine afire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguard Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 sometimes I dont even bother with tank hunter teams late 42 and up however, on early war tanks, they will work. Ive had a tank hunter tank /run\ command up to a tank, molotov it, and kill all of its crew then run back to a house with no casualties whatsoever. it was amazing. the tank was an old panzer version. this was in early 42 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Originally posted by securityguard: sometimes I dont even bother with tank hunter teams late 42 and up however, on early war tanks, they will work. Ive had a tank hunter tank /run\ command up to a tank, molotov it, and kill all of its crew then run back to a house with no casualties whatsoever. it was amazing. the tank was an old panzer version. this was in early 42 Tank hunter teams are great scouts, what with their SMGs and such. Very effective. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Finns,using alcohol in molotovs. that sounds very odd,I think they would drink the alcohol first and than throw the bottle to the enemy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Originally posted by MeatEtr: Ok.....now.....what about a pipebomb? Evil Bert will explain all. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguard Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Originally posted by MrSpkr: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by securityguard: sometimes I dont even bother with tank hunter teams late 42 and up however, on early war tanks, they will work. Ive had a tank hunter tank /run\ command up to a tank, molotov it, and kill all of its crew then run back to a house with no casualties whatsoever. it was amazing. the tank was an old panzer version. this was in early 42 Tank hunter teams are great scouts, what with their SMGs and such. Very effective. Steve </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Phosphorus Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 The Soviets had different types of molotovs. One was the standard gas and diesel, and another was a self-igniting sulfuric mixture, with white phosphorus thrown in. The latter burned at over 1000 degrees C. The general practice was to throw the self-igniting one first, and then follow it up with two fused ones. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Roxanne Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 Yes, but....I want the more effective grenades to be thrown by the TacAI first!!! It's more LOGICAL to use the more effective weapon first. IOW, a Russkie squad's AT capabilities are EHHANCED if they DON'T have muddytop crap-pails. Kris 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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