To The Volga! A massive AAR (in progress)

[Dillweed]

To The Volga. I really couldn’t resist. For those of you who don’t know it is a massive scenario depicting the final assault on the Stalingrad tractor factory. Looking around the forums it seems to be a bit notorious. The common ideas seem to be “Wow, it looks cool but it will take too long, I hope to play it some day,” and “Wow, long but great.” If you are in the former group think of this as a good taste of what to expect. Imagine it as an AAR in progress. I’ll keep you up to date with what’s going on, more or less as I do it.

If you do want to tackle this beast be prepared for a lot of number crunching. I have an Athlon 2200+, a radeon 9800 and 1 GB of ram. Still, the first turn took about 15 mins for the AI to plot its moves and for the computer to calculate the turn. Anyway lets get this show on the road

General Plan

As I don’t really know what to expect, I’m just going to start off advancing most of my assault force more or less in a line to the first objectives. They will generally have heavy support behind them. I know I will not be getting reinforcements so I plan to keep a sizable reserve. Included in this is all of my armor. I really have no idea what Ivan has in the way of anti-tank assets. I want to hold them back until they are needed at strong points (Of course this is Stalingrad, so I expect that to be, well, everywhere.)

Forces: (note the organization/designation it for my reference, not necessarily what the game says)

Main Attack force

Battalion 1

Company D (Rifle 41)

Company E (Rifle 41)

Company G (Rifle 41)

Battalion 2

Company H (Rifle 41)

Company K (Rifle 41)

Company L (Rifle 41)

Battalion 3

Company P (Panzer Rifle)

Company Q (Panzer Rifle)

Company S (Panzergrenadier)

Company R (Panzergrenadier)

Support Forces (each battery supports its corresponding battalion)

Battery 1

4 50mm AT

2 88mm flak

2 75mm inf guns

1 150mm inf gun

3 20mm flak

Battery 2

4 75mm inf guns

2 150mm inf gun

Battery 3

3 50mm AT

2 75mm inf guns

1 150mm inf gun

And of course lots of MG34s and some 105 spotters

Reserve

Company A (Pioneer)

Company B (Recon 41)

Company C (Rifle 41)

Company I (Rifle 41)

Company M (Rifle 41)

Company O (Panzergrenadier in half-tracks)

Company T (Panzergrenadier)

Company U (Panzerpioneer)

Company V (Pioneer)

Company W (Recon 41)

Platoon 1 (Panzer IVF2)

Platoon 2 (Panzer IVF2)

Platoon 3 (Panzer IVF)

Platoon 4 (Panzer IVF)

Platoon 5 (Panzer IIIJ)

Platoon 6 (Panzer IIIJ)

Platoon 7 (Panzer IIIH)

Platoon 8 (Panzer IIIH)

Platoon 9 (Panzerjager I)

Platoon 10 (PSW 232 8-rad)

Platoon 11 (PSW 222)

Platoon 12 (sIG IB)

Various trucks

Objectives

Batallion 1

The southern admin office. Battery 1 will support.

Bat. 1

Batallion 2

The southern instrument workshop. Battery 2 will support.

Bat. 2

-----

[ September 13, 2005, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Dillweed ]

[Dillweed]

Batallion 3

The central instrument workshops. Battery 3 will support.

Bat 3.

Company R

The northern instrument workshop. Some support from Battery 3, as well as the northern recon section (Comp W, plat 10, 11)

Comp. R

That’s all for now. Stay tuned for Turn 1.

Same bat-time!

Same bat-channel!

(EDIT: It doesn't seem to like big picutures, so I just put the links in)

[Dillweed]

To The Volga!

Turn 1, Game 1

Objectives

Pretty simple at this point. The assault force is simply advancing to the jump off points for their first objectives.

Results

Main attack force

Things went pretty smooth. My nightmare of entreched Ivans mowing them down as soon as they were in the open proved to be groundless. 1st bat caught a little static from some wooden mg bunkers before the flak guns started to engage. But other than that everyone is at worst a little shaken, but half way to the jump off point.

Battery 1

Mainly just engaged the aforementioned MG bunkers. For some reason only the 20mm were opening up even so, the bunkers have suffered several MG hits and penetrations, I expect them to be gone by next turn.

Battery 1 hitting MG bunkers

Battery 2

Had harder luck. One of the 150s brewed up a distant t-34. But a lucky shot managed to take out 2 of the 75s near the end of the turn.

Lucky Shot

Battery 3

Engaged some distant infantry with its guns and MGs. As they were about 600m out one would assume they did not do too much damage, but kept some heads down.

Battery 3

Company W/Recon Group

Now this was something I wasn’t expecting. Apperently they were within sight of several artillery spotters. They really got walloped by that opening barrage. Most of the guys just ran off the map. In the end 2 squads “survived” (but are broken) 1 armored car is still FMC and another is immobilized. The others are knocked out.

Before

16 seconds in

After

Company M

Same thing, but not as bad. Some light shelling. They are scattering and panicky, but casualties are not too bad.

Company M scattering

Analysis

An inauspicious start, no doubt. But, this being the tractor factory, well, things certainly could have been worse. I think the attack force will be able to get to their jumping off points without too much trouble. We shall see

Stay tuned for turn 2

Same bat time!

Same bat channel!

[Philippe]

Might not be a bad idea to edit the title of this thread...

[stoat]

Yeah. A massive AAR?

[Kingfish]

Strange, I thought this thread was gynecology.

[Dillweed]

Ho! Thanks.

To the volva, hmmm

Meant to post that in the porno forum

[DBaron]

Why did you group your guns so close together?

[JasonC]

Everything is too close together. A force this huge should use wave tactics because there isn't enough room to all crowd up on-line. Also, arty is always fired too soon in massive fights like this. Incidentally, you are insane.

[anteportas]

Cool idea this AAR.

If you have any 80mm front armour tanks use them right away. T34 cannot penetrate them accept from the side, so keep them keyholed abit.

Which move command do u use? I would use "move to contact" with a covered arc, so they halt when fired upon, but still continu if they see an opponent outside their arc.

[Brent Pollock]

As the author of the progenitor "Our Backs to the Volga" AAR, all I can say is, "Go man, go!"

...oh...and JasonC's quite correct: you are utterly insane :eek:

[Dillweed]

Unfortunetly the best tanks I have is a PZIV. A very iffy proposition at longish (700m) range agaist t-34s and KVs. I'm keeping them back so I can whack em at close range if they come after my infantry. And yeah, that artillery really was wasted. I mean, it sucks for the recon company but if I had to lose anybody I would have picked them. Whats that Patton said? "Drive down that road till you blow up"?

[Dillweed]

To the Volga!

Game 1, Turn 2

Objectives

Continue to jumping off points, as last turn. Also after the unfortunate experience of Company W, any reserves that do not have a roof over their heads will quickly remedy that.

Results

Main Attack Force

Once again, things appear to be going great. Battalion 2 is a little rattled, but other than that, they reached the first jump off point just fine. Battalion 3 with Comp R seems to have all but taken the northern 3 instrument workshops.

Battalion 3 reaching objectives

Battery 1

I targeted the MG bunkers with my heavy flak. They went down pretty quick.

Wooden bunkers taking hits

Batteries 2 and 3

Sparring with their respective opponents at long range. Little or no damage either way.

Company W

The shells are still falling. I assume that since it is a preliminary bombardment they will continue to do so until out of ammo. I guess they wanted the recon company dead, dead, dead. Better them than the attack force.

Analysis

Front line with pockets of Soviet resistance at end of turn 2

My initial reaction was to rush my tanks in to engage the T-34s at long range. Since the best I have is a Panzer IVF, I had second thoughts. I must admit I am surprised at how well things have been going. Not to be cliché, but I feel as if things are perhaps too quiet. I set my infantry on “advance” as I really expected them to receive heavy fire almost immediately. Now here they are in cover. I feel as if I’m walking into a trap.

Stay Tuned for turn 3

Same bat-time!

Same bat-channel!

[ September 14, 2005, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Dillweed ]

[Zalgiris 1410]

Thanks Dillweed for the linked battle pics how do you do that and get them in your posts and how were you able to draw the light blue line representing your front line and the red circles etc. What's the process?

BTW I'm assuming that you're playing against the CPU opponent and did you let it to place its units during the set up phase with no adjustments in force balance.

[Dillweed]

I took the screenshots with the Screenshot Utility I then just loaded the JPEGs into mspaint to draw the lines. Finally I uploaded to Imageshack and linked using the "url" command. Your assumptions are correct. And i just realized how long this is going to take

10 battles

30 turns each

2-3 turns a day = 3-5 months!

[Dillweed]

To The Volga!

Game 1, Turn 3

Objectives

1st and 2nd battalions are starting to get tired after advancing. I’ll let the boys catch a breather for about a min. Battalion 3 is still pretty fresh, and is only about 50m from their fist objectives (the northern instrument workshops) so I’ll just have them consolidate.

3rd Battalion’s planned advance

Results

Just as planned. 3rd bat made it, no problem.

Analysis

Frontline

A pretty unremarkable turn. I had very limited objectives and I met them.

[Bigduke6]

I want to thank you for doing an AAR on a scenario most of the rest of us were too wimpy even to attempt. Keep up the good work, even if you are playing the wrong side.

[Zalgiris 1410]

Are you absolutely sure that you allowed the computer opponent to freely place its units because IME with this battle, you ought to have been minced meat by now considering that you just 'advanced' your Infantry without spending enuough time providing a softening up preparation of his forward positions Dillweed?

[Dillweed]

Positive, there would have been much more infantry the areas getting hammered by my guns if I hadn't

[anteportas]

Do you have LOS with your guns to the third line of VL's (about 3)? If not this might be a problem. You could also rush some tanks in, since it seems that the building also act as an LOS block to possible russian tanks.

[Dillweed]

I was initially reluctant to send it tanks based on an expiriment I had run a few weeks ago. I set up a QB with a company of pIVF vs T-34 M42s at long range on a flat open field. The 34s won handily, so I was quite reluctant to rush my tanks in. However, I ran a sim last night with the tanks in the scen (PIVF2 and t-34 m41) The double barrel length and low armor (50mm) made all the difference in the world. I lost my whole company of t-34s in less than 30 seconds.

[Zalgiris 1410]

Well der Dillweed, that's why the PzIVF2 was called a Special. It was given the extra long main gun to deal with the T-34, as was the StugIIIF.

IME all T-34/75mm model forces would suffer likewise as in your test due to the faster targeting by the PzIVs because of their better spotting.

BTW get used to fearing for your PzIV Specials, because for all subsequent models of PzIVs they never have more than 50mm of turrett front armour, ever! This is true, I've checked, I don't know the reason even when they put more on late war PzIII turrett fronts. At this point I blame Guderian until I know for sure.

So never ever just rush in your PzIVs, quite right Dillweed. I'm going to be following your huge set of AAR to watch how you handle them. I'm looking forward to see how you go with this.

OTOH, I don't know if this was a response to my quierry as to whether you are sure that you let the CPU opponent / AI freely set up or not?:

Positive, there would have been much more infantry the areas getting hammered by my guns if I hadn't

I don't understand what you are trying to say Dillweed. :confused:

[Dillweed]

Just a note, I am a first year history major with a particualr intrest in russian history 1941-45. I would say I know a good deal about it. That being said it is my first year, so forgive if I don't have the specs for all the tanks memorized yet

Speaking of which I have a paper due on the Fourth Lateran Council

A truly action packed document, I recomend you all read it. I can see them writing it now:

"I don't know your holiness, I think we need another cannon on how to punish heratics"

So no more updates till its done.

[ September 15, 2005, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Dillweed ]

[Joachim]

If the PzIIIJs have the 70mm front, use them a bit forward of the PzIV long. Hopefully the Soviets target your PzIIIs first. Those will survive longer. It works best if the PzIIIs come into view of the T34s a few secons before the PzIVs.

Space out your units.

Put the arty in cover. Those craters would work fine. They work as foxholes. Units in the open caught by incoming try to reach cover - crews usually abandon their guns when doing this. If they are in the best cover around, they usually just pin, but don't leave their guns.

Expect the Soviets to target a prep barrage at your 88s in the following battles. So place them away from anything valuable. To move them you need SdKfz 7. Load the 88s on those during setup, put them on a road and try to run away from the barrage. Hope to drop them in a somewhat decent position.

Gruß

Joachim

[ September 15, 2005, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Joachim ]

[Other Means]

Remember, unit advancing have 1/2 as much firepower as units still. Keep *at least* 20m between them and advance them one at a time. What you're aiming to do is have an enemy unit spotted by one of your then have local superiority in numbers*firepower to achive fire superiority. That way you win the firefight.

Also, walls are great defense for guns from direct fire. The crews pin behind the wall, recover, and come back up.

Saying that - I'm enjoying the AAR, cheers for doing it.