Brent Pollock Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Okay, I've read through "Enemy at the Gates" and Beevor's book and perused numerous internet sites but can't get a straight answer as to the weather during the start of Operation Hubertus (Nov. 11/42). I'd appreciate it if anyone could provide me with the information. I'd be interested in the absolutes as well as how you think they should be translated into CMBB parameters. I'm particularly interested in temperature (Cool/Cold/Frozen) and ground conditions (dry/wet/mud/light snow). I'd also be very interested in the gold mine: a day-by-day account of the temperature, wind, ground conditions et cetera. The overview I've been able to get is: - August through September: hot and dry - October: unseasonably warm and dry - November (early): ice floes appear on Volga (which to me means the Stalingrad local temperature is near zero degrees C but it could just mean it is really bloody cold somewhere upstream - November (early to mid): weather turns ugly (accumulations of ground snow, blowing snow, sub-zero temperatures, occasional fog) - December to February: extreme cold and snow So, overall, just like here in Calgary this year...although our weather turned crappy at the end of October. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 All I could find is the weather for 11/03: http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/local/RSXX0117 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 The river crossings were frozen - it was critical to the whole Russian battle plan (secondary water obstacles erased - of course the big rivers were still a serious matter to cross). Light ground snow - freeze would be the CM equivalent. There was also morning fog on the day of the attacks. Lack of coordination of arty fire due to the fog is mentioned in the Russian staff studies as delaying breakthrough in a number of sectors, until armor was committed. [ November 14, 2003, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: JasonC ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Pollock Posted November 15, 2003 Author Share Posted November 15, 2003 You seem to be talking about Operation Uranus, the Russians' encircling attack; "Enemy at the Gates" gives a pretty good account of that. As stated, I'm most curious about Operation Hubertus (launched Nov 11/42), the German pioneer attack to take the last remnants of the west bank in Stalingrad. Originally posted by JasonC: The river crossings were frozen - it was critical to the whole Russian battle plan (secondary water obstacles erased - of course the big rivers were still a serious matter to cross). Light ground snow - freeze would be the CM equivalent. There was also morning fog on the day of the attacks. Lack of coordination of arty fire due to the fog is mentioned in the Russian staff studies as delaying breakthrough in a number of sectors, until armor was committed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 According to 'The Last Bid', ASL scenario Red Barricades 5, for the Red Barricades campaign game, on 11 November 1942 the environmental conditions are given as 'wet with no wind at start'. There's no mention of rain or snow. Chances are it was overcast, if not by nature then at least from all the smoke of the massive bombardment beforehand. The AAR for the battle gives the impression it stayed relatively free from adverse weather all day. I'll send the AAR email if you like... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Don't you guys have anything better to discuss than the weather? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Yeah, my spelling in German... hehehe :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Pollock Posted November 15, 2003 Author Share Posted November 15, 2003 Sorry, I should've mentioned straight off that I've had that HASL module for bloody ages: I'm just wondering how much info it's model of the weather is based on. Originally posted by Richie: According to 'The Last Bid', ASL scenario Red Barricades 5, for the Red Barricades campaign game, on 11 November 1942 the environmental conditions are given as 'wet with no wind at start'. There's no mention of rain or snow. Chances are it was overcast, if not by nature then at least from all the smoke of the massive bombardment beforehand. The AAR for the battle gives the impression it stayed relatively free from adverse weather all day. I'll send the AAR email if you like... [ November 15, 2003, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Brent Pollock ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Yes, I did mean Uranus, sorry. You want a week earlier? Sorry, donno... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Is ASL Veteran going to do an Operation based on Red Barricades? I had done the map up but lost interest when it came to researching the forces involved (and also laying down all those craters!!) Incidentally, Charlie Kibler, the creator of the Red Barricades module, is looking for playtesters for a CM version of his Red October ASL module. I played through one game with JasonC and Chuck is looking for testers for a revised draft of a smallish scenario. Any takers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Pollock Posted November 16, 2003 Author Share Posted November 16, 2003 Holy livin' crap [and I mean that in a good way]! Charlie Kibler himself, eh? ASL Veteran and I have just started a playtest of The Last Bid. I got involved with it because I was thinking of doing it but thought he might have beaten me to it: he had. That's what really prompted me to delve into Stalingrad weather. Michael, what is Mr. Kibler's contact info: I'd definitely be up for playtesting that. Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Is ASL Veteran going to do an Operation based on Red Barricades? I had done the map up but lost interest when it came to researching the forces involved (and also laying down all those craters!!) Incidentally, Charlie Kibler, the creator of the Red Barricades module, is looking for playtesters for a CM version of his Red October ASL module. I played through one game with JasonC and Chuck is looking for testers for a revised draft of a smallish scenario. Any takers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 I would really, really love to help out play testing any Red October adaption. Feel free to put me in touch with Mr Kibler if he needs people. Ahh Stalingrad... THE HORROR :eek: (I've always thought The Commissar's House would absolutely rock as a CMBB adaption on the Red Barricades map!) [ November 15, 2003, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Richie ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Pollock Posted November 16, 2003 Author Share Posted November 16, 2003 Go to the Scenario Depot and you'll find ASL Veteran has already taken a stab at most of them. The one you're after is a battle by the name of "Commissar's House". Originally posted by Richie: I would really, really love to help out play testing any Red October adaption. Feel free to put me in touch with Mr Kibler if he needs people. Ahh Stalingrad... THE HORROR :eek: (I've always thought The Commissar's House would absolutely rock as a CMBB adaption on the Red Barricades map!) Also, I didn't read Beevor's book closely enough. He mentions that on November 9, 1942, "real winter weather arrived...minus eighteen degrees centigrade". Still no mention of snow, though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Alexander Werth recounts his experience on visiting the Stalingrad area in January 1943. He was a BBC correspondent in Moscow during the war, so he was used to Russian winters, but Stalingrad that winter was quite severe even for him. It was 40 below Farenheit with a chill factor. He spent part of the time sitting in the bed of a truck while nearing the rear area of operations, and even with all the winter gear he had on, being exposed to the elements was shocking. The Soviets troops who were deployed on the front dug deep holes - not trenches - complete with a shelter and stove at the bottom, big enough for 2-4 people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emar Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Also available at the Depot is "Der Pionier Kessel". It is a 4 battle operation depicting the German Pioneer battalion's assault on the Commisar's house on Nov 10th. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Thanks Brent. I was going to do one myself and release it through Boots & Tracks one day... It's always best when someone else does all the hard yards and thanks very much to them. I can't wait to check it out! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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