Soviet AT

[JasonC]

Yeah, plane took out the gun on my right, behind its fortress-ridge. One on the left still alive despite several Tiger-minutes of attention. Perhaps the plane can get it too.

Time getting tight, 10 minutes left. And a lot of German vehicles have fallen out. Infantry on my right accumulating in wheat shy of the right side tree-covered hill (also full of trenches), where MGs and ATRs survived the death of the guns. Limited but persistent outgoing fire, vehicles distracted by ATRs etc in the middle ridge trench.

The defense is going to hold, with its teeth drawn but not enough force x time left to follow that up fully.

[Corvidae]

And mangled defenders are holding

[Corvidae]

Damm those planes,

Messing my guns up, and terrorizing my infantry.

but i'm still holding

[JasonC]

Last Russian gun finally taken out by a good HE shell from a Tiger. Infantry pushing on the right, looking dicey but not a lot of time, can't really wait for more Tiger prep work. So we roll the bones.

[JasonC]

Ugly push on my right. 2 MGs firing at the start of the minute, but both heads down and crawling from armor overwatch by the end of it. Still 2 other infantry up at firing at infantry, some in grenade range of Pz Gdrs. Others present firing ATRs at SPWs and the like.

2 more Tigers nearing the position, makes all 3 left. Several SPWs also pulled up in front. Not a lot of time and some of the German infantry heads down. Some have reached the trees, at least (same cover the Russians are in).

Russian position on my left is left alone, having lost its guns and absorbed a few minutes of close range tank fire. Wasn't able to do more to it with the Pz IVs gone and the Tigers spending the last several minutes finishing off the guns.

[Cuirassier]

Sounds like both sides have been ground down quite a bit in the old meat grinder.

[Corvidae]

Weapons and tanks have been killed, But personel casualties have been light overall.

My first line has been mauled on its flanks, but this is where the fighting has been concentrated.

I unknowingly made this mission unwinnable for the axis player, and the next version will be very different. Diffrent terrain, different perameters, and a more correct axis weapons kit.

It has been a huge learning experience, in both scenario design and combat. I honestly do hope to play against Jason again. He knows what he's doing, and he improvises well.

Only what ??? 8 more turns to go?.

My far left is being pounded hard, I'm expecting carnage.

[JasonC]

I agree, it has been fun.

Germans need an FO, mortars, later model Pz IVs (with 80mm front hull instead of 50mm), a lot more time, some cover for vehicles somewhere within a mile of the Russian positions, "gentle slopes" terrain. The time would help with thing like mines by allowing infantry to lead more.

The Russians don't need much added to have a strong defense. The 45mm were quite effective, as were the 76mm. The ATRs have been quite effective against the SPWs. Most of the Russian infantry has not been engaged, hasn't been needed. The mines were also very effective, in part because the Germans have to rush, time-wise.

[Andrew H.]

It's nice to see a scenario where AT mines matter, since they were much more important historically than is usually represented in CM games.

[Jack Carr]

Great thread! Enjoyed reading the blow-by-blow.

[Guest Mike]

Originally posted by JasonC:

Germans need an FO, mortars, later model Pz IVs (with 80mm front hull instead of 50mm), a lot more time, some cover for vehicles somewhere within a mile of the Russian positions, "gentle slopes" terrain. The time would help with thing like mines by allowing infantry to lead more.

Depends what hte purpose of hte scenario is.

If it is to show how an AT defence can be organised then they don't really need that at all - they're only there to provide opfor.

If it is to see how an AT defence can be overcome then absolutely!

[JasonC]

Two platoons of Russian infantry currently doing "banzai" charges from out of their reverse slope trenches, into the open. Targeting leftovers on the left side of the map and center. Center right, perhaps meant to rush armor, too.

Seems premature, even if they are out of play where they are. Probably meant to distract from the push on my right, at its hardest moment. One Tiger hit the leftmost platoon last turn, put most of them on the deck.

In the far right tree covered hill, German infantry are right in among the Russians now, trading blows at 15 meters range. Some smaller Russian units clearly wiped out and some MGs broken-sneaking. Others still up and firing, plenty of units left on the position and more entering it from the rear.

Looks to be a bloody knock-down drag out there over the next few minutes.

Oh and PS, the endless 82mm mortar fire has resumed (!), and is now falling around the German armor parked in front of the right tree-hill.

[ May 08, 2006, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: JasonC ]

[Corvidae]

yep

[Corvidae]

JasonC and I have been playing my Beta version of "Wittman in the east",

The delta version is almost ready for testing ,,

It has all the right units for a german assult in july 1943,

But it needs an axis briefing,

The allied briefing is taken care of.

*sargent rasputin's howling cossaks* comic style,

(anyone care to guess the 2 references in that?)

[Cuirassier]

What happened to the Charlie version?

[Corvidae]

Comrade Cuirassieroff,

The charlie version was deemed inapropriate for hetrosexual viewing.

It included a subroutine for all units to take off their shirts and line dance *Y*M*C*A* at regular intervals.

It also required a mod for all HQ units to wear sailor moon costumes and torn fishnets. All Axis squads to wear PVC bondage gear. And all allied squads to wear pastel football uniforms.

*******************************************

CM is a serious matter, We cannot alow such frivolity,

Currently working on a mod for all ambient sounds to be Ramones songs,

[Corvidae]

turn 28,

The 3 surviving tigers have withdrawn from my left flank, as have the surviving HTs.

My center is intact, my right is recovering,

and my left is rallying,

It was very brutal for a while, Grenade and bayonet range, And a lot of casulties in a very short time.

But the worst is seemingly over. The facisti have

done their worst, and we have chewed them up and spat them out,

There are a few orders of Lenin to be handed out.

[JasonC]

Accurate enough. Tigers continue to target ATRs and occasionally THs 100m or more away over open ground, who are no threat. HE ammo for them basically all gone, so they are just using MGs. German infantry in numbers are in the woods on the right, but most are pinned and unwilling to get up. A dozen demo charges have gone unused among them - I saw one thrown 2 minutes ago, only - despite being within 30m of Russian targets, "use explosive" orders, etc. Just too pinned, I guess. Armor needed to give them a momentary fire ascendency, then they would have let fly, but has failed to do so. Looks like the Russians will hold on the right as well, therefore. Just a couple turns left.

[Corvidae]

Its been interesting.

The allied briefing.

From the sun dappled steppes of south siberia,

One boy, raised on a horse driven farming collective. Nicolai Rasputin, volunteers with the local cossak troop. And goes west......

The humiliating defeats of 41 are a brutal lesson, But one cossack squad stays coherant in retreat. Comrade rifleman Rasputin become their defacto leader by instinct.

Months of just holding untill darkness, ends at the gates of Muskova

Now promoted to sargent, Nicolai Rasputin leads his cossaks on the long and bloody march to final victory, FOR THE RODINIA!

[ May 12, 2006, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: Corvidae ]

[Other Means]

Can you not use Tiger smoke to give the Engineers rally time Jason?

[JasonC]

Not really no. The Russians were at about 7 different points within an area of trees and trenches about 100m deep by 150m or so wide, with German infantry all along the front face of that. A few smoke rounds might block a few dyads, but could not break LOS from 7 units to 10 units over such an area. The Tigers had maybe 2s apiece. Also, their MG fire was needed.

They did rally a bit and threw 2 DCs in the last minute. But it is too little, too late. There are still Russians left alive on the position, and the German infantry was not able to sweep through it. They had to do so rapidly for the attempt to make sense, anyway.

The idea was to get across the full-map width, reverse slope trench line from the right flank, then roll up it toward the left just enough to get the tanks through safely, and then cross the ridge with the tanks.

To accomplish that, the infantry had to sweep through the position in a few hard minutes and still have some punch left. Instead, they pinned at the treeline, exchanging off messily. The clock ends with them still trying to finish off that flank anchoring position, so the tanks don't have any chance to cross the ridge.

It was a fun fight, and is not at all murdering kittens anymore. C will incorporate comments along the way and says he has a new scenario made. Should be better than either the original or this one.

[Corvidae]

hullo Jason,

That more or less sums it up.

Too little time and no axis artilery or mortars, plus too many vehicles to be exited. Made this game unwinnable for the axis player. Even an axis monopoly on air support wasnt enough to ballance the lack of artilery, It was unfairly stacked from the word go. All the brilliant tactics in the world couldnt salvage the attack.

It was fun though.

The delta version will be 50 minutes long, not the inadequate 30 of this game. The axis will have a realistic kit of mortars and gun support,

and only the 4 tigers will have an exit for points opption.

[JasonC]

I don't think my tactics were particularly brilliant - lol. And you set up a strong defense.

Congrats, and glad the testing helped make a better scenario.

[Other Means]

I meant hit your own units with smoke, you then get 360 degree concealment. All it takes is a couple of minutes if they're not far down the morale slope.

Still, I learned a word - dyads. The day's not wasted.

[JasonC]

Can't cover 10 units with 3 smoke targeting orders. Covering just a few they might rally, sure. But the others get no cover fire and rout. It is a reasonable enough idea if you only have a few units in trouble, or can throw a lot of smoke (e.g. a fire mission). Didn't apply here.