Lacking of spreading area fire command?

[Knaust]

IMHO I think that CMBB lacks the spreading area fire command...I mean...suppose you want advance your troops and in the meantime you want to cover a part of woods with fire..with the area fire command you can target only one point of that area...with the area fire command wou would cover an arc, much like the cover arc of a mg.

[SFJaykey]

Arcs for area fire sound like a good idea. Or maybe drag-boxes so the feature could be used for mortars, too. Wonder how much suppression effectiveness would be lost; probably a lot. But a Heavy MG42 working a tile or two of trees at less than 200m might be effective...

Curious to hear what those who have been in combat IRL think on this, which is more realistic?

- Matt

[ParaBellum]

That's one thing I'm missing since CMBO.

When I order area fire I usually don't want my tank/gun to fire 10 rounds of HE ammo at one tree, but rather cover a whole area, suppressing the enemy or likely enemy positions.

Especially with precise, high velocity guns like the Panther's 75mm gun this is a problem since they're pretty accurate and the rounds hit their target area in a very tight pattern.

Since low velocity guns are not that accurate and their rounds will disperse over a greater area they're IMO more useful for this kind of fire.

Of course you can always slightly re-target them after a minute but this method is far from being a perfect solution.

I'd really like to see the ability to create a "area fire box", meaning the tank/gun crew will randomly fire at that area.

[Krazy Canuck]

Originally posted by ParaBellum:

I'd really like to see the ability to create a "area fire box", meaning the tank/gun crew will randomly fire at that area.

I'll sign this petition.

KC

[Other Means]

w3rd.

i a related matter, i'd like the ability to set volume of fire. i.e. if you have a mortar area firing/spread firing i'd like to set how many shells it fired (roughly) in a min. a RL command i imagine would be something like "They're in the woods over there. Keep their heads down."

[SFJaykey]

Originally posted by Other Means:

w3rd.

i a related matter, i'd like the ability to set volume of fire. i.e. if you have a mortar area firing/spread firing i'd like to set how many shells it fired (roughly) in a min. a RL command i imagine would be something like "They're in the woods over there. Keep their heads down."

Yes, options for "Rapid Fire" or "Suppression Fire" would be nice, at least for support weapons. I love on map mortars but some of those 50mms can blow their entire ammo load in one turn. I have resorted to "gamey" tricks to reduce their rate of fire. My usual technique is to keep the mortar facing _away_ from the enemy until I need its fire; pivoting to face the target takes almost half a turn and saves a lot of ammo. But when the game is _forcing_ players into gamey behavior, it seems something is a little off...

You know, applying command delay and pause to fire orders, as well as movement, would help sort this out as well.

- Matt

[MikeyD]

A high/low ROF toggle for mortars is a good idea, especially for area fire. I can't tell you how often I've refused to do supressive area fire with my light mortar because I knew he'd be all out of ammo inside of 1.5 turns.

The 50mm mortar's max practical rate of fire might have been 1 round every 8 seconds in real life, but sometimes it's just a waste of ammo in the game.

[Dirtweasle]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

A high/low ROF toggle for mortars is a good idea, especially for area fire. I can't tell you how often I've refused to do supressive area fire with my light mortar because I knew he'd be all out of ammo inside of 1.5 turns.

The 50mm mortar's max practical rate of fire might have been 1 round every 8 seconds in real life, but sometimes it's just a waste of ammo in the game.

You might consider using the "MOVE" command to interupt fire mid turn. Set a small move command and then use your "PAUSE" toggle to let on mortar fre for say the first 30 seconds. This is also useful for lettng a sniper / sharpshooter fire a coupple rounds and then move to a new position.

[MikeyD]

Dirtweasle, you are a GENIUS!!! How many years have I played CMBO and CMBB and I never thought of that! To think of all those lovely mortar rounds I've wasted!!! :eek:

[SFJaykey]

Good idea, DW! My pivoting trick works, but is less precise and costs me half a turn.

A question: if a "gamey" technique actually adds realism to the game, is it still considered somehow "unfair" by those who, like me, generally eschew "gamey" tactics? I mean, isn't it more realistic for an HQ to be able to tell a mortar team: "I think there may be an MG in those woods; drop a few rounds as we cross this field but don't blow your load."

- Matt

[Dirtweasle]

Hey thanks, I'm glad you found the suggestion useful.

It would be ideal to select X rounds and a linear or circular pattern, and even better for off-board arty batteries to be able to fire that way.

[mchlstrt]

I'm behind this idea. I've encountered the same problems. A firing 'pause' would be a seperate & useful thing.

strt

[vedder]

YES YES YES! These are THE two things I want to see in CMAK! Radom Area and surpression fire within an arc and the ability to control how much ammo you use whilst firing mortars in a 60 second turn.

[John Kettler]

I have seen this issue covered in 1960's vintage

U.S. infantry field manuals at squad level, complete with detailed illustrations of the concept and its execution. The basic command had the squad leader specify the end points points, type of fire (doctrinally defined), rate and duration.

A squad! Suppressive fire between those two trees (points) until B squad reaches those fallen trees (points) Fire!

I presume something similar was used during World War II. All it is is a terrain oriented fire command. We definitely should have such a capability in CMAK and indeed all the games. There should be no need to turn weapons backwards, move mortars, etc., in order to accomplish a routine combat task in a sane manner. Some fire distribution algorithm coupled with a range of firing rate options (harassing, deliberate, suppressive) might do the trick. HE lobbers should

be controllable both by rate and quantity of fire.

Regards,

John Kettler

[ May 09, 2003, 05:37 AM: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[Alarmer]

Great Idea!

Actually I was thinking something like this in a question mode when I came to this forum.

I was to ask how large are example MG42 firing area fire is supressing? is 10*10 square box are or how is it determined in CMBB?

Overall the idea of setting area fire boxes and the ability to choose how much support weapons fire at a turn is great idea!