Nippy Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 In the quest for the ever elusive and sometimes denounced “Game play balance”, here is a basic system I have begun using to generate challenging, somewhat realistic, yet still enjoyable Quick Battles. First you need the overall settings: Number of Turns: 40+ Variable ending (You’ll need every turn, trust me.) Fog of War: Extreme! Rarity: Standard Unit Condition: All units (Both Sides) are fit and at 100% strength and ammo load out. Map Size: Small Terrain: Rural or Farmland, Light or Moderate Tree Coverage, and Small or Modest Hills. Purchase Points: Anywhere up to 1,250 Map Damage: 0% Next, I will give out some unit restrictions: No heavy tanks or even up armored Medium Tanks, ever. Get used to it. No Artillery over 105mm(Germans) and/or 122mm(Soviets) No more than 3 TRP’s Use overly rare units like the Soviet 57mm or the German Pak43/88 AT Gun very sparingly, or better yet not at all. No Attack Aircraft Now I need to give out a few pointers on errors to avoid. Errors you ask? Well: 1. Never exceed 1,250 Purchase Points. Otherwise the game automatically make the map medium or large despite the fact that you have the setting at “Small”. 2. Stay away from probes at all costs…get your mind out of the gutter you pervert! Getting serious again, the game just loves to make you Auto “Cease-Fire” on probe missions even if your moral is above 75% and you are inflicting a 7 to 1 loss ratio. 3. Watch the Temperature setting when you set up the map. I’ve had “Hot” days during November of 1942 during a snow storm. Hey, hell froze over! Funny, last time I checked I’m still a virgin. 4. Always choose “Human Purchase” for your own forces. Never ever trust the AI to buy units for you, trusting the AI ends up getting you a platoon of Armored Cars vs. KV-1s 5. Always have some types of trees and hills on your map. It gives you much more room to maneuver. Unless of course you enjoy driving wave after wave of T-34s across open Steppes towards Elite Tiger Is then by all means set the terrain to pancake mode. Now that we have the rules out of the way, here are the various Battle setups I use. Name: No Hope Battle Type: German Assault Human Forces: Soviet Low Quality Guards Infantry Only. AI Forces: German High Quality Troops, Armor Heavy Force. Month: June through September Year: 1941 Region: North, Central, or South. Time: Dawn, Midday, or Dusk. Weather: Clear, Overcast, Rain, or Fog Comments – The name of the game is see to how well you can lose. Time to see just how good of a defense you can set up. Pulling off a “Tactical Defeat” should be considered a victory. This is a good game setup to use to practice before playing against other humans. It forces you to learn proper defense. Name: Early War Blitzkrieg Battle Type: German Attack Human Forces: German High Quality Troops, Unrestricted Force. AI Forces: Soviet Medium Quality Guards Troops, Combined Arms or Infantry Only Force. Month: May till September Year: 1942 Region: South Time: Dawn, Midday, or Dusk. Weather: Clear, Overcast, Rain, or Fog Comments – Restrict yourself to light and weaker Medium tanks only. Half-Tracks, Armored Cars, PzII, PzIII early model and PzIV D are the order of the day. Even against an “Infantry only” force, you will have to display tactical caution because both the 14.5mm AT rifles and 76.2mm AT gun will be as common as vodka at a Russian wedding. Name: Winter Defense Battle Type: Allied Assault Human Forces: German High Quality Troops, Infantry Only Force. AI Forces: Soviet Medium Quality Ski Troops, Combined Arms Force. Month: Winter months, November is the best to use. Year: 1942 Region: South Time: Night Weather: Blizzard Comments – Prepare for hell on earth and lots of nail biting. LOS is about 40m at best, which gives the AI the ability to get real close (and into your rear areas) without getting slaughtered and German “Uber-Optics” are rendered useless. Plus the “Combined Force” setting for the Soviet AI troops is a game of Russian roulette, AI purchase choices are pretty random when it comes to tanks so you might be up against BA-64s or KV-1s…or as I had happen, both. Name: Beginning of the end Battle Type: Allied Attack Human Forces: Soviet Medium Quality Guards Troops, Unrestricted Force. AI Forces: German High Quality Troops, Combined Arms Force. Month: May till September Year: 1944 Region: Central Time: Dawn, Midday, or Dusk. Weather: Clear, Overcast, Rain, or Fog Comments – Same as the earlier setup for the Germans, so the same rules apply. Stay away from T-34/85’s and JS-2’ and use T-70s, SU-76s and the odd ISU-122 or SU-85 instead. However, 1 or 2 M17s are still acceptable. Well, that’s about it. I wrote this because some people new to the game seem to be having trouble having “fair” fights with the AI enemy and I wanted to throw in my 2 cents. Just remember that the above isn’t set in stone. If any of you have any tweaks or suggestions, please make yourself heard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Steiner Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Very interesting and informative post on QB's. I mostly only play scenarios, but may just have to try a few QB's using these rules. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drez Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 That was very interesting, thanks for the post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KG_SSpoom Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Good Ideas,my opponents an I have had a little trouble getting a grip on the QB system, trying to get fun semi-balanced games. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Originally posted by Nippy: Well, that’s about it. I wrote this because some people new to the game seem to be having trouble having “fair” fights with the AI enemy and I wanted to throw in my 2 cents. Just remember that the above isn’t set in stone. If any of you have any tweaks or suggestions, please make yourself heard.i like 10% casualties, just for a little flavor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckler_rider Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Here's a way around the point limit dictating map size. Create a MAP in the editor, you determine the size then let the AI auto-generate, then save it in Quick Battle Maps. Start a QB an import the MAP. Works like a champ........ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tondu Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Yeah, why not bump this one up too? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Originally posted by russellmz: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Nippy: ...If any of you have any tweaks or suggestions, please make yourself heard.i like 10% casualties, just for a little flavor.</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest konrad Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 bump this one ,is a good one indeed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Originally posted by Nippy: No Attack Aircraft Does that mean that the defender can take aircraft in your QB model? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinjari Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Very cool...I have found that (as a total n00b) I rarely play scenarios and always QB's. However I just dump everything on 'random' and 300pts (I like very very small squad ops) and let the comp pick everything. I think I am not doing myself any favours with this method although the load outs do seem somewhat balanced (for the most part) and I have been having quite a bit of fun...I just think I may be setting myself up for a beat down when I finally step off from the AI 'teet' as it were and finally face a living opponent. Anything more than a small engagement gets WAY out of hand for me. Anyway, well done...Ill have to give it a go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted November 27, 2002 Author Share Posted November 27, 2002 Originally posted by Silvio Manuel: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Nippy: No Attack Aircraft Does that mean that the defender can take aircraft in your QB model?</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 Gotcha. I think that CMBB aircraft are indispensable...so much interesting variety, and the Russians really need them on defense otherwise they have to kind of rely on their on-map 50/82mm mortars, regimental towed guns, tanks, etc. Well maybe not...TRPs should help their piss-poor arty ETAs out. They make for a nice wild card, and their presence demands that your opponent consider buying AAA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Rapier Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Bump. These are such great fun that I haven't played anything else since I came across them. Finally managed a Total Victory in 'No Hope' last night as my massed reverse slope rear facing 45mm antitank gun ambush took out an entire Panzer company in a minute. Cheers Martin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biltong Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Try using the 'Import Map' function (3rd QB screen - Map Type etc) - use anyones maps or get one in my sig below... ready made maps make quite a diff to QB's Well done Nippy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malthoff Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Some good ideas Nippy. Any tank above a 37mm should be disallowed. I play a lot of QB s with 800 pts, 20 turns, and have had a lot of fun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPeng Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Bump for Nippy's excellent ideas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by malthoff: ... Any tank above a 37mm should be disallowed. ...Axis; 37mm, Allies; 45mm. Cheers Olle 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 bump bump and bump. was looking for this thread for a long time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Carr Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I enjoyed reading your suggestions for enjoyable quick battles. I will most certainly try some of them. A few questions I had: 1) Why just small maps? This will limit the ability of the AI to outflank any defense the human player would set up. 2) I noticed that there wasn't much mention of giving one side or the other numerical superiourity. Why? I like to play battles that are historically accurate. Without this setting you never get the feel of what the Germans were up against in late 1944 and early 1945. Using this setting allows you to select the better tanks that were available to both sides. For example, If I give the Soviets +50% in an attack scenario in late 44, historically accurate by the way, I then can select two Panther tanks for the Germans. The two Panthers will find themselves up against 10-12 T-34/85's or 8 T-34/85's and 2 IS-2's. The outcome of the battle is still based on the individual players skill. The players unit placement and usage will still determine the outcome of the battle. If you are concerned about too many of this tank or that tank being selected, then turn on the rarity factor and use realistic numerical superiourity. Although Tiger and Panther were superiour to their Soviet counterparts, they weren't so superiour that they couldn't get knocked out when faced with numerical superiourity. The Russians knew this and used it to their advantage. Don't forget, the 8 T-34/85's that are lost in the battle were very quickly replaced with 15 new T-34/85's or better yet, IS-2's. The Germans replaced their knocked out Tiger tank with a Panzer Grenadier carrying a panzerfaust. This game allows you to understand exactly what the problems were that each side was faced with during the conflict from a combat perspective. To me, it seems a shame to box it in to specific scenario settings. Historical accuracy can still provide some thrilling play time. Not to worry, those two Panther's can have a "field day" and some well placed grenadiers can give the human wave a bloody nose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Nippy, playing russians, I find the Nippy Challenge a good guide, any further updates to the scenarios ? Cheers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou2000 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Nippy, I like the idea of these rules. Playing the AI is something I've stopped doing but think I'll have to give these a try ... they look good :cool: Any chance of a similar set for Human Vs Human ? I see there has been some discussion about it, but a full set of rules would be great .... Also is there any chance of getting them posted somewhere that they will be easier to find ... they keep slipping down the fourm - and rely on Bumps to bring them back to life! Maybe one of the scenario / multiplayer websites could provide a home for them. Or the hints and tips forum. I'm sure if they are more visible lots more people would give them a try. Some great ideas ....Thanks As these were originally posted about 6 months ago is there anything in the patches that affect them (bug fixes/new units etc).... I doubt it but thought I'd ask. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 1) Why just small maps? This will limit the ability of the AI to outflank any defense the human player would set up. This is just my personal preference. I like plaing on somewhat smaller maps with company size forces. Oversized forces and maps tend to drag battles out too long for my liking. However, I will admit that large maps do have gameplay advantages. I have had some leanings towards larger maps as of late thanks to repeated playing of "The Nippy Challenge" What is that you ask? Well it all started in this thread which talked about the T-34/85 vs. the Tiger. Large maps do have the distinct advantage of showing off the pluses and minuses of Soviet and German Tanks. Large maps really let the German-Uber optics and the T-34s exellent cross country preformence shine. To me, it seems a shame to box it in to specific scenario settings. Historical accuracy can still provide some thrilling play time. Like I said before, they guidelines I gave were not set in stone. They were for the most part designed to overcome the tacticaly inept AI and at the same time give the player more of a fair shake. As for Human vs. Human I think the Panther/76 rules from CM:BO were rather nice. I get Panther, you get Long Barrel Shermans. I get Tigers, you get Fireflys or Pershings. Ect. I just wish someone would convert it to CM:BB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Bumping for newbies David I, this is from 2002 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 My version of 1941 for QBs I focus on the Russians (more experienced for H2H, or human vs. AI). Early breakthough fighting, south sector Germans armor force type, med or high qual, roughly 50% armor good types, maxed arty/air. Russians uniform greens, combined arms infantry division force, 40-50% infantry, 25% support max, light tanks only. Standard attack odds for the Germans. Terrain rural no trees or farmland light trees, flat or gentle slopes with 1.25m contours. Nasty because it is lots of good armor in the open. Can't overbuy tons of guns (support point limit). Set piece, it shows how the Germans broke through in selected sectors. Have to try to use actual infantry where the terrain is distinctly unsuitable, using e.g. trenches. Blocking action vs. exploitation, central sector Germans combined arms mobile division force type, assault odds, high quality. Russian defenders infantry force type and division type, low quality, majority of infantry squads must be conscripts, budget 1/2 infantry (min), 1/4 support (max), split rest arty or fortifications. Terrain rural, moderate woods, central sector, damp ground, gentle slopes. Conscripts against high odds. The saving grace is terrain channels attacking tanks. Hide in the large woods areas, try to block routes with AT mines, roadblocks, close infantry assault, a few ATG. If you play this vs. a human, the Germans should have an exit victory condition. They have to live and get through to win. Shows how Russians slowed and occasionally stopped Germans in the wooded north, with troops fresh off the trains dumped in the German's path. Russian mech counterattack Russian force type is armor, mech division type. Negative odds attack, use -30% attack or -50% assault settings. Greens. Only 10% or one platoon of infantry, only 10% support, only 10% or one module of arty or one plane. Rest must be armor which should be light tanks. (In a large scenario you can allow yourself one platoon of T-34 - against 1500+ defenders). For humans, Germans should have modest infantry, lots of support/guns, one platoon of armor, air. Dug in, terrain moderate woods farmland or light woods rural. It is hard to attack with masses of the Russian light tanks against a prepared defense. Especially as greens, slow command response, without combined arms, etc. Can easily lead (as it did, really) to masses of burning T-26s or BTs. (A big version of this with a human German player might have pioneers, 37mm PAK, 105mm howitzers on map, one platoon of Pz38s or PzIIIs, AT mines, and a strafing fighter-bomber). Encircled breakout Russian infantry force type, all greens or conscripts, no armor vehicles -or artillery- (on map mortars only, no towed guns either). Negative odds attack or assault, as above (-30 attack, or -50 assault). Germans are infantry force type and division type, medium to high quality. If human, take moderate infantry, HMGs, wire optional, and 105s with TRPs (up to 6). Terrain is moderate or heavy woods, rural, and time is night. Russians should actually have an exit victory condition. Shows what happened to the forces cut off in the northern half of the front in particular. Trying to escape and evade through German infantry division defenses after arty ammo gave out. Using the forests and swamps as escape routes, but with panicky infantry, at night, sometimes blundering into registered arty or hidden MG kill zones. Should give a reasonably vivid sense of 1941 from the Russian point of view. (Has for me). I hope this is interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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