Nippy’s guide to fun and enjoyable Quick Battles.

[Nippy]

In the quest for the ever elusive and sometimes denounced “Game play balance”, here is a basic system I have begun using to generate challenging, somewhat realistic, yet still enjoyable Quick Battles.

First you need the overall settings:

Number of Turns: 40+ Variable ending (You’ll need every turn, trust me.)

Fog of War: Extreme!

Rarity: Standard

Unit Condition: All units (Both Sides) are fit and at 100% strength and ammo load out.

Map Size: Small

Terrain: Rural or Farmland, Light or Moderate Tree Coverage, and Small or Modest Hills.

Purchase Points: Anywhere up to 1,250

Map Damage: 0%

Next, I will give out some unit restrictions:

No heavy tanks or even up armored Medium Tanks, ever. Get used to it.

No Artillery over 105mm(Germans) and/or 122mm(Soviets)

No more than 3 TRP’s

Use overly rare units like the Soviet 57mm or the German Pak43/88 AT Gun very sparingly, or better yet not at all.

No Attack Aircraft

Now I need to give out a few pointers on errors to avoid. Errors you ask? Well:

1. Never exceed 1,250 Purchase Points. Otherwise the game automatically make the map medium or large despite the fact that you have the setting at “Small”.

2. Stay away from probes at all costs…get your mind out of the gutter you pervert! Getting serious again, the game just loves to make you Auto “Cease-Fire” on probe missions even if your moral is above 75% and you are inflicting a 7 to 1 loss ratio.

3. Watch the Temperature setting when you set up the map. I’ve had “Hot” days during November of 1942 during a snow storm. Hey, hell froze over! Funny, last time I checked I’m still a virgin.

4. Always choose “Human Purchase” for your own forces. Never ever trust the AI to buy units for you, trusting the AI ends up getting you a platoon of Armored Cars vs. KV-1s

5. Always have some types of trees and hills on your map. It gives you much more room to maneuver. Unless of course you enjoy driving wave after wave of T-34s across open Steppes towards Elite Tiger Is then by all means set the terrain to pancake mode.

Now that we have the rules out of the way, here are the various Battle setups I use.

Name: No Hope

Battle Type: German Assault

Human Forces: Soviet Low Quality Guards Infantry Only.

AI Forces: German High Quality Troops, Armor Heavy Force.

Month: June through September

Year: 1941

Region: North, Central, or South.

Time: Dawn, Midday, or Dusk.

Weather: Clear, Overcast, Rain, or Fog

Comments – The name of the game is see to how well you can lose. Time to see just how good of a defense you can set up. Pulling off a “Tactical Defeat” should be considered a victory. This is a good game setup to use to practice before playing against other humans. It forces you to learn proper defense.

Name: Early War Blitzkrieg

Battle Type: German Attack

Human Forces: German High Quality Troops, Unrestricted Force.

AI Forces: Soviet Medium Quality Guards Troops, Combined Arms or Infantry Only Force.

Month: May till September

Year: 1942

Region: South

Time: Dawn, Midday, or Dusk.

Weather: Clear, Overcast, Rain, or Fog

Comments – Restrict yourself to light and weaker Medium tanks only. Half-Tracks, Armored Cars, PzII, PzIII early model and PzIV D are the order of the day. Even against an “Infantry only” force, you will have to display tactical caution because both the 14.5mm AT rifles and 76.2mm AT gun will be as common as vodka at a Russian wedding.

Name: Winter Defense

Battle Type: Allied Assault

Human Forces: German High Quality Troops, Infantry Only Force.

AI Forces: Soviet Medium Quality Ski Troops, Combined Arms Force.

Month: Winter months, November is the best to use.

Year: 1942

Region: South

Time: Night

Weather: Blizzard

Comments – Prepare for hell on earth and lots of nail biting. LOS is about 40m at best, which gives the AI the ability to get real close (and into your rear areas) without getting slaughtered and German “Uber-Optics” are rendered useless. Plus the “Combined Force” setting for the Soviet AI troops is a game of Russian roulette, AI purchase choices are pretty random when it comes to tanks so you might be up against BA-64s or KV-1s…or as I had happen, both.

Name: Beginning of the end

Battle Type: Allied Attack

Human Forces: Soviet Medium Quality Guards Troops, Unrestricted Force.

AI Forces: German High Quality Troops, Combined Arms Force.

Month: May till September

Year: 1944

Region: Central

Time: Dawn, Midday, or Dusk.

Weather: Clear, Overcast, Rain, or Fog

Comments – Same as the earlier setup for the Germans, so the same rules apply. Stay away from T-34/85’s and JS-2’ and use T-70s, SU-76s and the odd ISU-122 or SU-85 instead. However, 1 or 2 M17s are still acceptable.

Well, that’s about it. I wrote this because some people new to the game seem to be having trouble having “fair” fights with the AI enemy and I wanted to throw in my 2 cents. Just remember that the above isn’t set in stone. If any of you have any tweaks or suggestions, please make yourself heard.

[Sgt. Steiner]

Very interesting and informative post on QB's. I mostly only play scenarios, but may just have to try a few QB's using these rules. Thanks!

[Drez]

That was very interesting, thanks for the post.

[KG_SSpoom]

Good Ideas,my opponents an I have had a little trouble getting a grip on the QB system, trying to get fun semi-balanced games.

Thanks

[russellmz]

Originally posted by Nippy:

Well, that’s about it. I wrote this because some people new to the game seem to be having trouble having “fair” fights with the AI enemy and I wanted to throw in my 2 cents. Just remember that the above isn’t set in stone. If any of you have any tweaks or suggestions, please make yourself heard.

i like 10% casualties, just for a little flavor.

[heckler_rider]

Here's a way around the point limit dictating map size.

Create a MAP in the editor, you determine the size then let the AI auto-generate, then save it in Quick Battle Maps.

Start a QB an import the MAP.

Works like a champ........

[Le Tondu]

Yeah, why not bump this one up too?

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by russellmz:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Nippy:

...If any of you have any tweaks or suggestions, please make yourself heard.

i like 10% casualties, just for a little flavor.</font>

[Guest konrad]

bump this one ,is a good one indeed

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by Nippy:

No Attack Aircraft

Does that mean that the defender can take aircraft in your QB model?

[Kinjari]

Very cool...I have found that (as a total n00b) I rarely play scenarios and always QB's. However I just dump everything on 'random' and 300pts (I like very very small squad ops) and let the comp pick everything. I think I am not doing myself any favours with this method although the load outs do seem somewhat balanced (for the most part) and I have been having quite a bit of fun...I just think I may be setting myself up for a beat down when I finally step off from the AI 'teet' as it were and finally face a living opponent. Anything more than a small engagement gets WAY out of hand for me.

Anyway, well done...Ill have to give it a go.

[Nippy]

Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Nippy:

No Attack Aircraft

Does that mean that the defender can take aircraft in your QB model?</font>

[Silvio Manuel]

Gotcha. I think that CMBB aircraft are indispensable...so much interesting variety, and the Russians really need them on defense otherwise they have to kind of rely on their on-map 50/82mm mortars, regimental towed guns, tanks, etc. Well maybe not...TRPs should help their piss-poor arty ETAs out. They make for a nice wild card, and their presence demands that your opponent consider buying AAA.

[Martin Rapier]

Bump.

These are such great fun that I haven't played anything else since I came across them. Finally managed a Total Victory in 'No Hope' last night as my massed reverse slope rear facing 45mm antitank gun ambush took out an entire Panzer company in a minute.

Cheers

Martin

[Biltong]

Try using the 'Import Map' function (3rd QB screen - Map Type etc) - use anyones maps or get one in my sig below... ready made maps make quite a diff to QB's

Well done Nippy

[malthoff]

Some good ideas Nippy. Any tank above a 37mm should be disallowed. I play a lot of QB s with 800 pts, 20 turns, and have had a lot of fun.

[MrPeng]

Bump for Nippy's excellent ideas

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by malthoff:

... Any tank above a 37mm should be disallowed. ...

Axis; 37mm, Allies; 45mm.

Cheers

Olle

[laxx]

bump bump and bump. was looking for this thread for a long time.

[Jack Carr]

I enjoyed reading your suggestions for enjoyable quick battles.

I will most certainly try some of them.

A few questions I had:

1) Why just small maps? This will limit the ability of the AI to outflank any defense the human player would set up.

2) I noticed that there wasn't much mention of giving one side or the other numerical superiourity. Why? I like to play battles that are historically accurate. Without this setting you never get the feel of what the Germans were up against in late 1944 and early 1945. Using this setting allows you to select the better tanks that were available to both sides. For example, If I give the Soviets +50% in an attack scenario in late 44, historically accurate by the way, I then can select two Panther tanks for the Germans. The two Panthers will find themselves up against 10-12 T-34/85's or 8 T-34/85's and 2 IS-2's. The outcome of the battle is still based on the individual players skill. The players unit placement and usage will still determine the outcome of the battle. If you are concerned about too many of this tank or that tank being selected, then turn on the rarity factor and use realistic numerical superiourity. Although Tiger and Panther were superiour to their Soviet counterparts, they weren't so superiour that they couldn't get knocked out when faced with numerical superiourity. The Russians knew this and used it to their advantage. Don't forget, the 8 T-34/85's that are lost in the battle were very quickly replaced with 15 new T-34/85's or better yet, IS-2's. The Germans replaced their knocked out Tiger tank with a Panzer Grenadier carrying a panzerfaust.

This game allows you to understand exactly what the problems were that each side was faced with during the conflict from a combat perspective. To me, it seems a shame to box it in to specific scenario settings. Historical accuracy can still provide some thrilling play time. Not to worry, those two Panther's can have a "field day" and some well placed grenadiers can give the human wave a bloody nose.

[laxx]

Nippy,

playing russians, I find the Nippy Challenge a good guide, any further updates to the scenarios ?

Cheers!

[Lou2000]

Nippy,

I like the idea of these rules. Playing the AI is something I've stopped doing but think I'll have to give these a try ... they look good :cool:

Any chance of a similar set for Human Vs Human ?

I see there has been some discussion about it, but a full set of rules would be great ....

Also is there any chance of getting them posted somewhere that they will be easier to find ... they keep slipping down the fourm - and rely on Bumps to bring them back to life!

Maybe one of the scenario / multiplayer websites could provide a home for them. Or the hints and tips forum. I'm sure if they are more visible lots more people would give them a try.

Some great ideas ....Thanks

As these were originally posted about 6 months ago is there anything in the patches that affect them (bug fixes/new units etc).... I doubt it but thought I'd ask.

[Nippy]

1) Why just small maps? This will limit the ability of the AI to outflank any defense the human player would set up.

This is just my personal preference. I like plaing on somewhat smaller maps with company size forces. Oversized forces and maps tend to drag battles out too long for my liking.

However, I will admit that large maps do have gameplay advantages. I have had some leanings towards larger maps as of late thanks to repeated playing of "The Nippy Challenge"

What is that you ask? Well it all started in this thread which talked about the T-34/85 vs. the Tiger.

Large maps do have the distinct advantage of showing off the pluses and minuses of Soviet and German Tanks. Large maps really let the German-Uber optics and the T-34s exellent cross country preformence shine.

To me, it seems a shame to box it in to specific scenario settings. Historical accuracy can still provide some thrilling play time.

Like I said before, they guidelines I gave were not set in stone. They were for the most part designed to overcome the tacticaly inept AI and at the same time give the player more of a fair shake.

As for Human vs. Human I think the Panther/76 rules from CM:BO were rather nice. I get Panther, you get Long Barrel Shermans. I get Tigers, you get Fireflys or Pershings. Ect.

I just wish someone would convert it to CM:BB

[junk2drive]

Bumping for newbies

David I, this is from 2002

[JasonC]

My version of 1941 for QBs I focus on the Russians (more experienced for H2H, or human vs. AI).

Early breakthough fighting, south sector

Germans armor force type, med or high qual, roughly 50% armor good types, maxed arty/air. Russians uniform greens, combined arms infantry division force, 40-50% infantry, 25% support max, light tanks only. Standard attack odds for the Germans. Terrain rural no trees or farmland light trees, flat or gentle slopes with 1.25m contours.

Nasty because it is lots of good armor in the open. Can't overbuy tons of guns (support point limit). Set piece, it shows how the Germans broke through in selected sectors. Have to try to use actual infantry where the terrain is distinctly unsuitable, using e.g. trenches.

Blocking action vs. exploitation, central sector

Germans combined arms mobile division force type, assault odds, high quality. Russian defenders infantry force type and division type, low quality, majority of infantry squads must be conscripts, budget 1/2 infantry (min), 1/4 support (max), split rest arty or fortifications. Terrain rural, moderate woods, central sector, damp ground, gentle slopes.

Conscripts against high odds. The saving grace is terrain channels attacking tanks. Hide in the large woods areas, try to block routes with AT mines, roadblocks, close infantry assault, a few ATG. If you play this vs. a human, the Germans should have an exit victory condition. They have to live and get through to win. Shows how Russians slowed and occasionally stopped Germans in the wooded north, with troops fresh off the trains dumped in the German's path.

Russian mech counterattack

Russian force type is armor, mech division type. Negative odds attack, use -30% attack or -50% assault settings. Greens. Only 10% or one platoon of infantry, only 10% support, only 10% or one module of arty or one plane. Rest must be armor which should be light tanks. (In a large scenario you can allow yourself one platoon of T-34 - against 1500+ defenders). For humans, Germans should have modest infantry, lots of support/guns, one platoon of armor, air. Dug in, terrain moderate woods farmland or light woods rural.

It is hard to attack with masses of the Russian light tanks against a prepared defense. Especially as greens, slow command response, without combined arms, etc. Can easily lead (as it did, really) to masses of burning T-26s or BTs.

(A big version of this with a human German player might have pioneers, 37mm PAK, 105mm howitzers on map, one platoon of Pz38s or PzIIIs, AT mines, and a strafing fighter-bomber).

Encircled breakout

Russian infantry force type, all greens or conscripts, no armor vehicles -or artillery- (on map mortars only, no towed guns either). Negative odds attack or assault, as above (-30 attack, or -50 assault). Germans are infantry force type and division type, medium to high quality. If human, take moderate infantry, HMGs, wire optional, and 105s with TRPs (up to 6). Terrain is moderate or heavy woods, rural, and time is night. Russians should actually have an exit victory condition.

Shows what happened to the forces cut off in the northern half of the front in particular. Trying to escape and evade through German infantry division defenses after arty ammo gave out. Using the forests and swamps as escape routes, but with panicky infantry, at night, sometimes blundering into registered arty or hidden MG kill zones.

Should give a reasonably vivid sense of 1941 from the Russian point of view. (Has for me). I hope this is interesting.