PBEM Zip option

[hardcampa]

I would really like to see the option:

"Save as zip"

I only suggest this as implementing this would make PBEM'ing a lot smoother and because the zip format is widely known documented and available as source codes all over the internet =)

Any other PBEM'er out there agree?

[Ace Pilot]

I think it is a great idea. I'd take it a step further and suggest the BFC incorporate a PBEM utility into their engine, such as CM Oneclick (which worked great for CMBO and I'm hoping will be upgraded to work with CMBB).

[Fuerte]

Try PBEM Helper, it already has this feature.

[WWB]

But does the avaliable zip-writing code allow you to redistribute it as part of a commercial application for profit?

Not that making zip files is all that difficult anymore--right click and you are done with it. Right click again to send.

WWB

[hardcampa]

Originally posted by wwb_99:

Not that making zip files is all that difficult anymore--right click and you are done with it. Right click again to send.

WWB

ZIP has never been hard, I just find it being one unneccesary step when the program could do it for me.

But then again the PBEM management in CM is equal to null, there's a lot more you could do with it, that would remove the need to depend on external programs.

[Fuerte]

Originally posted by hardcampa:

ZIP has never been hard, I just find it being one unneccesary step when the program could do it for me.

But then again the PBEM management in CM is equal to null, there's a lot more you could do with it, that would remove the need to depend on external programs.

I agree. But PBEM Helper has some features that are hard to implement in one game:

1) It can open the attachment from your e-mail program, start PBEM Helper automatically, extract the file into correct folder, start your game program, click required buttons, enter file name, enter password. And when you exit from game program, it automatically sends the e-mail. You just need to play the game, everything else is automated.

2) It handles several different games: CMBO, CMBB, Steel Panthers etc.

3) It supports MAPI and SMTP.

[Lars]

Fuerte, I tried several times and never could get your program to work.

All I want is a very simple utility that works with this game.

Something like the old OneClick.

[Redwolf]

PBEM files get bigger while in-transit when you zip them.

http://thforums.com/CMBO/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=index&myfaq=yes&id_cat=2&categories=CMBO+FAQ%27s&parent_id=0#2

You may want to zip them to "guard" them from crappy mail transport messing with them, but the data volume increases. And if you have trouble with corrupted attachments, you should rather change mailer and/or ISP.

[WWB]

Redwolf,

Do you understand what a PITA changing mail and/or ISP is. I am suffering through a forced ISP switch (thank DirecTV). I have been offline for 3 weeks now.

Changing email address is more of a nightmare. How many people do you need to contact. How many will fail to update thier address book and will lose contact? What about everything tied to my trusty old email account?

Other thing is, depending on provider, the zip is not charged at the increased capacity. This is definitely true with Yahoo Mail. Files are counted according to thier on-disk size, not after SMTP encoding.

WWB

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by wwb_99:

Other thing is, depending on provider, the zip is not charged at the increased capacity. This is definitely true with Yahoo Mail. Files are counted according to thier on-disk size, not after SMTP encoding.

The encoding is done for SMTP, but it is done long before and undone long after the actual SMTP transport. In fact your local mailer already encodes it (read: makes the zipped PBEMs bigger than the PBEMs were) before sending it to the outgoing smtp server. And the decoding is not done when the last SMTP stage is done (in fact the last SMTP daemon cannot know it is the last), and it is not done by the software delivering it to your local mailer (pop3 or imap servers), but it is done by your local mailer.

All pop3 and imap servers I know of store attachments in the transport form (most of them in mbox mailboxes), none of them try to save space by unencoding them. This would also violate leaving the mail intact, the specific form of encoding may be important for a user.

If you are using Yahoo's web interface instead of pop3, there is a chance that they do it differently, but it is a much better bet that they use the same store for both pop3 and web interface users.

So your on-disk size at the yahoo harddisk between the last SMTP and hatever is delivering it t your mailer or web broweser is still the increased size of zippping a PBEM move.

[Ted]

Redwolf

I’m playing several opponents who have yahoo email.

I have to zip the files I send them or they can’t load it or somefink.

Is this a settings problem I can change or an IP problem?

[Visom]

redwolf, although you might have a valid point in saying that those with problems should change their ISP I think it's a bit much to assume that everyone has that possibility. Many would need to sacrifice their broadband connection and go back to modems as there are a few places with only one broadband ISP. Heck, there are even places where there's only one ISP at all.

What I don't understand in this area is why the files are stored in ASCII? File is originally created in binary format and then converted to text in order to send it smoothly by mail. (Compare your saved games with your PBEM files.)What would be the problems with sending the original binary file? Afaik there's a lot less problems sending binary files than text files...

I'd like to have an option, maybe as one of the preferences: Store PBEM files in binary or text format? Don't need no zipping tool, it's already encrypted and compressed.

[Gaylord Focker]

I use Yahoo mail, and people don't have to zip files to me.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Visom:

redwolf, although you might have a valid point in saying that those with problems should change their ISP I think it's a bit much to assume that everyone has that possibility. Many would need to sacrifice their broadband connection and go back to modems as there are a few places with only one broadband ISP. Heck, there are even places where there's only one ISP at all.

You can use your local ISP only as IP access and have your mailbox elsewhere. There is nothing which forces you to have the guys feeding you IP pakets also have you accept and handle your email.

I am with AT&T broadband in NE USA and sure as hell my mailserver is still in Germany at my old ISP.

What I don't understand in this area is why the files are stored in ASCII? File is originally created in binary format and then converted to text in order to send it smoothly by mail. (Compare your saved games with your PBEM files.)What would be the problems with sending the original binary file? Afaik there's a lot less problems sending binary files than text files...

There is no such thing as binary transport with SMTP, which is the protocol used for all normal email on the internet.

The problem with the unzipped CMBB format is that some ISP's software think they know what they do and damage these attachments because they think they can handle text any way they want, but in reality they damage it.

Or in other words: your attachemnts ending in *.txt (original PBEM format) and *.zip are both transported as ASCII, but for the *.txt you have ISPs and their software trying to do you some good by converting it whereas they rarely try to do that with attachments ending in *.zip. All this doesn't change the fact that the plain pbem move is smaller in-transport (and while stored in pop3 and similar mailboxes).

This returns me to my original point: an ISP who feels free to mess with your attachments should not be used for email. And as I said at the beginning of this message, you can use your town's local ISP for IP only and do email elsewhere.

Comparision:

You send clothes to your mother regularily. UPS always opens the packages, washes the clothes and they claim they are transported better that way. They don't give you any discount for it and you see no advantage and often the clothers are not usable when arriving. You noticed that if you put the clothes into a steel box and that in the UPS package then they leave it alone.

Would you start using steel boxes all the time now (and pay extra for the extra weight), or would you use FedEx instead?

[ February 04, 2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[Bruno Weiss]

By golly, you learn somefink ever day here at the forum. I'm sending my suits to FedEx from now on.

[WWB]

1) The only space issue I care about is what yahoo counts against my limit, which is the actual size of the zip file--NOT the inflated SMTP converted number.

2) When uploading, at least for the web-based, you are just uploading the straight text or binary. Zip files are smaller (at least for turns over a few hundred kb).

3) If I have broadband, why do I care about a 10% shift in file size? Especially given most connections are still unmetered. And I really have no reason to care about disk space on my ISP's servers. As for local storage it is pretty immaterial. With the smallest currently avaliable drives weighing in at 40gb or so you can afford alot of data file infation before it actually effects anything.

4) Note that some ISPs actually block sending through off-network mail servers. I know earthlink did this as of 2 months ago, and I have heard of others doing this.

So, while you are technically correct, it is pretty immaterial. Zip em if you have to folks.

As for Zip in CM, I would not mind seeing it so long as it could be done for free. I dont want to pay $5 more to save 2 clicks. Nor do I want to lose a few features to help the lazy.

WWB

[Visom]

redwolf, I back off regarding the ISP vs mail provider stuff. For some reason it never hit me that these are totally different....

Next thing (I'm not sure I got this right), is it correct that a .txt file is more often changed than a binary file, such as a .cme file? Also, what are the benefits of converting from .cme to .txt?

[Fuerte]

Originally posted by Lars:

Fuerte, I tried several times and never could get your program to work.

All I want is a very simple utility that works with this game.

Something like the old OneClick.

Please try the latest version... full download. It supports both U.S. "COMBATMISSION2.EXE" and Europe "Barbarossa to Berlin.exe", and several screen resolutions. It should work now. If not, send me e-mail explaing how it does not work. Also read the CMBO section about SendExtra option. You need this option with older nVidia drivers, don't ask me why.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Visom:

redwolf, I back off regarding the ISP vs mail provider stuff. For some reason it never hit me that these are totally different....

You need two things:

- you need your IP packets transported

- you (usually) need somebody to receive your mail for you and accept outgoing mail

If foo@bar.com sends you a mail from one private computer to your private computer, then he doesn't send it directly from his computer to your computer. Instead, he asks one one computer, usually a "outgoing SMTP server" to accept the mail and that computer sends it over the Internet. Usually this interim outgoing server is provided by your ISP. And that interim computer doesn't send to your private computer either. He sends it to one computer which is permanently in the internet and accepts the mail from you, and you connect to that receiving coputer to read your mail (usually with pop3 or imap). Usually that computer is provided by your ISP.

However, since both SMTP and pop3/imap go over normal IP packets, there is no need for his outgoing SMTP server to be provided by his ISP, and no need for your accepting mailserver to be provided by your ISP.

You can use any computer were you buy the service to do so as outgoing SMTP server. And you can use any computer where you buy the service to accept your email and offer it to your mail client via pop3/imap.

Now, that way you cannot use the email address of your ISP (who now only does the IP pakets and non of the mail), but if you want a permanent email address you should get your own domain anyway or you can buy a more permanent address from whoever offers you the accepting mailserver.

Next thing (I'm not sure I got this right), is it correct that a .txt file is more often changed than a binary file, such as a .cme file? Also, what are the benefits of converting from .cme to .txt?

In my experience *.txt files are often damaged. zipfiles very rarely. Other binary files not recognized are somewhere in between.

It is pretty obvious that Charles wanted to do the PBEM players a favour by wrapping the PBEM moves into a *.txt envelope after compressing them. That would make things more easy for everyone - if the stupid ISP's wouldn't tamper with the text files. Before the mass-market ISPs started sniffing into user's text attachments (up to 1997 or so), a text file was actually the much more reliable way to get an attachment over because of broken mail composing software and intact transport software. Now it's the other way round, modulo some still broken mail clients.

In fact, the way that Charles wraps the PBEM moves you don't need any attachment at all, you can transport the move in the body of your mail. That would make enourmous sense in the old days where many people could't do MIME attachments at all or not reliably. I guess it's kind of like the programming API choices in CM, good but obsolete.

BTW, in some mail clients the Mail clients (the user's program) are really at fault for damaging the attachments, not the ISP. In the case of yahoo I would strongly suggest so, because many people use text attachments on yahoo just file.

There are many outright broken mailers on the market, e.g. Microsoft Entourage, which is a Macintosh mailer by Microsoft and not surprisingly messes up the line endings. But I guess people get what is to be expected here.