komninosm Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I never thought of using rockets as USSR (or even as Germany for that matter) as efficient weapons, but with the introduction to your bid playstyle I'm thinking of the Katyusha defense. What if the USSR invests heavily on rocket research and supports its defense with rockets that don't lose as bad to German Air. Keep your own planes in the back so they can't be directly attacked and only intercept for your rockets. You can use them to kill off German units and cause many MPP losses. It's probably not the best strat, but could be cool for something new and not stale. So how about buying 10 chits for USSR with the bid money and putting 5 in rockets, 2 in Jets (you don't need LR and AA is banned though it could help in this strat) and 1 in AT, 1 in HT, 1 in industry. Or something like that depending on how luck goes and Axis research levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 An interesting idea, wouldn't hurt to try it out. The only player I've seen effectively use rockets is Rambo, he used them as Germany in Russia. It made it hell to maintain a frontline as the Soviets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappsweden Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Wont work. Axis will just keep attacking 4-5 air on rockets each turn and reinforcement costs will be huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 And planes get no damage, so free xp to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komninosm Posted July 14, 2005 Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 The Russian Air Fleets would be defending the rockets. Think about it. The rocket units are behind the front lines so they can't be attacked by some of the German AF. They also can't be attacked by any of the land units which cause most of the damage required to kill a unit in the front. Also with high tech rockets it will be very hard to kill all their strength points so they will cost you only reinforcement costs which are half the replacement costs (buying a new unit). On the other hand you can kill his front line units with no interceptions bothers and small help from your front-line units. Your rockets can be placed in cities or mountains and be entrenched and stuff. The only problem is that this strat depends on luck (tech) and the rocket damage decreases with range. I honestly don't know if it's efficient, but it's certainly something new for a change. I'm just tired from the same old same old. PS: My problem as Germans against the Allied AI was that I took Russia so fast that I never had time to use rockets, to bring them into place. I know this isn't a problem in multiplayer with bids and all. So I now thought of the reverse situation. All it really needs is some lucky tech, or perhaps rockets should have 1 more range to start with to be competitive units and not worthless crap nobody uses. What's Hubert's opinion on this? Does he think rockets are ok as is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 The problem is that the maximum range for rockets is 6 hexes, and once the Luftwaffe has long range air (or bombers) they can reach the rockets, but the rockets can't reach them in return. Although the Russian air force can help defend the rockets, concentrated Luftwaffe attacks on each rocket in turn will eventually pound them into the ground. That said, I have been wondering whether allowing Russia to start with rocket tech at level 3, 4 or 5 might not make for a more interesting game, as they could possibly manage an effective airforce AND make use of one or two rockets (remembering that they will get 1 with the Siberian transfer). Rambo isn't the only Axis player to have made good use of rockets. I have also used them effectively on a number of occasions, and the first time I beat the LC gambit was using one. They generally make for a slower but seemingly unstoppable advance into the USSR. However, to use an effective rocket strategy the Axis player will not only need to invest an immense amount of MPPs into them, but they will also require a lot of luck with tech research. I occasionally pop one chit into rockets and if they get up to level 3 will consider buying one, but in most games it isn't really a sensible option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I think rockets in the beginning had been to strong though their effictivness decreases with the range. I think the same adjustent should have been done with airfleets. Ragarding defending your rockets with AF. To do it effectivly you need more advanced tech then the axis and you need will need at least eh same number of AF as the german can put into service. If not you damages wil be much higher then for the germans and you will simply loose. It is much more cost effective for Rusia to battel for air supremacy from the beginning and not invest money into rockets. On the other hand germany could use rockets to annoy the Englisch. Either in attack . England is to small to hide or in the south to annoy teh american around Bordeaux out of reach from the allied airforce. Still you need tio make a investment in rocket tech and if you have luck an the tech goes through the roof then perhaps you can use them . Still usally you lack resources and won´t have the money to make a significant investment and if you have enough resources usally you won´t need rockets to win. End of this rockets as they are are more a special toy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 My eyes are bleeding ... wtf is wrong with your spelling? Are you stoned or something? Or the keyboard went nuts on you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komninosm Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 Look the aim isn't to attack the enemy Air Fleets back. The aim is to keep your MPP losses into the cheap (50% cost) reinforcement department and not have to buy new units and do the opposite to the Axis player. Idealy you keep your rockets and Air Fleets back till you get reasonable tech (perhaps put 4 chits in rockets and 4 in jets, 1 in AT and 1 in Industry, you don't need anything else) like you usually do with Russia anyway. Then attack with ground troops to soften up land unit and kill with the rockets and perhaps even Air Fleets if you have to. The enemy Air Fleets are bound to be spread out along the front and can possibly cover a lot of your front-line units, but none or few of them will be able to reach your rockets or Air Fleets directly, except through forcing interceptions. He'll have to move his Air Fleets closer to the front-line first and concentrate them, because unlike front line armies which he can attack with at least 2 of his to soften them up before sending in the Air Fleets for the kill, he needs more Air Fleets to kill a single behind the line unit, especially ones in cities or mountains, entrenched and with strength of 13 or more. And even if he does kill a rocket unit, that probably saved you at least 2 armies you could have lost in the front if he spread out the air power a bit. Think about it. The point of your Air Fleets is simply to give them some losses and avoid the uber-experienced Germans problem. The biggest problem with this strat is tech luck as always. I'd go with a corps defense early and buy a few rockets while they're cheap and invest in tech. Then wait to see which of Jets or Rockets tech goes up faster and go with a strat that suits that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 komninosm wrote: "Look the aim isn't to attack the enemy Air Fleets back". I understand that, but it will be a one sided battle unless the Russian air force is able not only to intercept the Luftwaffe, but also to drive them out of the skies with attacks of their own. If the Russian airforce cannot do this then the rockets will be bombed, and if they can drive off the Luftwaffe then you won't need the rockets. The problem is not only tech luck, but also that the effectiveness of rockets decreases with range and they are only deadly at the longer ranges when they are experienced and have the backing of a good HQ. Germany can bring this situation about, but the USSR will have a real problem doing so. If you want we can try this out in PBEM (I don't go in for TCP/IP). Rather than mess around playing from 1939 we can amend the 1941 scenario to make it more like how the average game looks by the time the Germans invade Russia in a game which did start in 1939. If you fancy this send me an email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by hellraiser: My eyes are bleeding ... wtf is wrong with your spelling? Are you stoned or something? Or the keyboard went nuts on you? Yupp typing blind. I should check my spelling before posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komninosm Posted July 16, 2005 Author Share Posted July 16, 2005 Thanks for the offer Bill, but I can't. My computer is 500 kilometers away and my mother's sucks (not to mention I'm leaving that behind too and going to some beach). It's an old 350 Mhz Pentium 2 (with windows XP for some stupid reason) that runs SC so slow it's almost unplayable (not enjoyable at any rate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 You would rather go to the beach? There are girls at the beach, they don't play SC! And if they don't play SC, what good are they?!? What kind of loser are you! yes, I am joking, by all means go to the beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagwyn Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Wow! You wont find JJR at the beach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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