jon_j_rambo Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 My Uncle K, Uncle J, & several other relatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Originally posted by jon_j_rambo: My Uncle. Your uncle is more than one person? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 "Nazis, I hate these guys" --- Indianna Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roqf77 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 but so are alot of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Okay, guys, lets say that Rommel was a sweetheart of a bunta...he was the best bunta possible...and just doing his duty. Well, we did our duty on Dresden, Hiroshima, & Nogasaki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roqf77 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 ? okay i mean i dont entirely agree but yeah this discussion could go on for eternity so itll do for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Yeah, deal me out. The Oakland A's are whipping the Tigers 7-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roqf77 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 wells it 4 30 am where i am and im losing conciousness and the ability to spell well what i had of it in the first place and grammer well that left an hour ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Targetting civilians or the use of WMD are war crimes imho. At that time they didn't have the 'collateral damages' concept ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 John, you've a mind for history and well read too. Hitler, was of course not a true Original. He borrowed his ideas from other men, far more capable than himself of vision. Whether that vision was a bit twisted and maybe a bit, well hmmmm, how would you really put it, bitter. That I leave for the individual. He like many Germans felt jipped. Naturally the scapegoat, Jew.. Perfect setup... The real Power of the Nation was in it's High Command and it's very proffessional army, and you're right those men I have read again and again fought against Tyranny and didn't allow S.S. Racial Purifiers attached to their Armies.. They were some fine Generals, that accomplished some things that people just write off...Noone ever remarks much on the Eastern Front and the many victories they achieved vastly outnumbered even late in the war. Rommel notably, who did kill himself because he was indicated in the '44 plot to Hitler. He had the choice, Hero or dead family... That is the accepted History Channel Version and from what I've read of the man goes along with his character. He was Proud, The Wermacht was proud, and us, the USA had a mixed up vision on how to split Europe after WW1 and deal with PostWar Germany. We should've put our foot down with the French and Belgians who exacted a heavy toll on the Germans... Fairness, not blame and perhaps WW2 would've been avoided. Any way we all look at it, Germany in WW1 was jipped and backstabbed and her young men grew up took power and took revenge, falling short of their goals. That's not a very advanced way of looking at it, it's factual... You steal away large chunks of the Fatherland so they want it back... Was it rightfully German, I think it was... regardless now Germany is an impotent Power unwilling to ever involve herself again in a real conflict due to the carnage and loss of life.. Plus the fact of European evolution.. Fact is you cannot steal a man's pride People, you cannot push him down into the Gutter, he will rise and he will take his Nationilistic flag and burn you down. Especially if you let him do it pretty much without a single hinderance< LOL Pre WW2 German preparation that noone payed attention to> Churchill regularly addressed parliment about the fact that Germany was building up it's Arms, they ignored him. Had UK and France fully mobilized in 1936 and stopped all this BS German expanionism early on, half the war may have been avoided, maybe Stalin would've seen that Germany isn't such a big dude and these Westerners don't cave in so easy to Hitler's demands, I will not bother with any deals with him... There is so much ill fate here, WW1 lead to WW2 and I cannot even believe any of it. The West was quite pathetic, we should've stopped this man early. You don't let a man become so powerful. If a Man stands in front of you assembling a 45 Calibar gun are you going to stand there if he's spouting how much he wants to dominate the World and you're in his way? LOL Well, that's just useless ideoogical banter... I read that Manny did well pre-Kursk, he was well on his way to smashing through to the Sea of Azow?<sp?> Rommel, was never beaten personally as far as I know, he was absent having surgery in Germany when Patton arrived in N.Africa and JRambo is right, N.Africa cost more than it was worth, that extra Panzer Column and supplies could've probably did the Reds in by the end of '41.. Good thing that Il Duce got bailed out by Hitler and his foolish overstretched Empire that bought Stalin time. There are so many great battles, in WW2 it was an Epic Struggle, a Titanic one. The American Might was never fully realized. Had Stalin not been so successful the grunt of Death and Burden of Victory would've fallen on the only other true World Power.. USA We would've marched 10 million men through France to Conquor Berlin, probably via another route if neccessary we would've lost 2 or 3 million dead......maybe more.... as the Reds did, as we left a lot of the fighting to the Reds, hey well, Stalin definitely screwed over his own people in a way. To many DoubleDealings, but Manpower wasn't his concern, a few million lives was not a real value to him, what was was what Hitler wanted More a Greater Russia with a huge defensive Border stretching into Germany cutting Europe in Half which existed near 50 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roqf77 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 IF YOU WANT TO POINT THE FINGER, POINT IT AT CHAMBRALIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roqf77 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 plus, putting the foot down on the treaty wouldnt of done anything. the loyld george put his foot down. and at this time the uk held far more political sway. rommel was in theater, he was absent at the battle of el alamein. plus look up kesserine pass ad faid pass, the american army was gaining experience. the battle in north africa was for fuel. which germany desperatly needed. remember the uk was in the war too with the commonwealth, infact most of the german forces(well the good units anyway) were positioned specificaly against the uk and commonwealth. and the had an army in germany 0f 80 or so divisions. more couldnt be spared due to man power shortages. uk by the way was around 76 divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 The German superiority complex was their downfall; pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Originally posted by jon_j_rambo: The German superiority complex was their downfall; pride. Wow wise words Rambo. It seems that America is following us in our footsteps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Originally posted by Sombra: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jon_j_rambo: The German superiority complex was their downfall; pride. Wow wise words Rambo. It seems that America is following us in our footsteps </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pino Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 Rambo, your the biggest idiot i've ever known.... I think you dont even know what a Nazi is.... It's true that a lot of the non-SS generals where no nazi's at all. And the germans shouldnt whine about Dresden, they've bombed Londen for a half a year, bombed Amsterdam and Warshaw completle to the ground and did it the first time in history in some spanish city in 1936(or1937) Theu should'nt whine that they got back what they started themsevelves... Its like America attacking Irrack and Afhganistan because 9/11, they got back what theyve started themselves... What i think was a real warcrime was the bombing of Tokio by the Americans whit Napalm, 1/3 of the city was burned down(the whole city was made of wood) and 120000 people died(more then Hiroshima) The japs didn't bomb American city's(pearl harbor was a military target), b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roqf77 Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 liam. your talking crap. the uk actualy has the highest number of immigrants and the like. secondly us aid was not significant in the battle of britain. thirdly about kos etc the uk sent more troops and stationed them for longer. and for that matter so did germany so shut up you ignorant jerk. spout your rheteric somewhere else this is a no politics forum. on the war on terror, the us has invaded afganistan and iraq, nothing else. The uk has sent expert police to other countires i.e spain and have brought many to justice. i agree with the war in iraq but the grounds that it would, secure the world from terroism is very shaky. so please tell me how the french and british created this problem? i would like to know? Lastly and my final point, if the us is saving the world why did it do nothing in siera lieone? in the last china taiwan crisis why was it ther uk and not the us that threatend china with military action? your thoughts need alot more clarity, you certainly need alot more perspective. You need to be alot more down to earth. and if this level of though is all your education has got you, i would ask for my money back. [ July 31, 2005, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: roqf77 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoat Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 @Liam The Japs deserved every bomb they got and quite a few more. They masacred hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians not to mention the thousands of allied pows they murdered. Don't forget that the Japanese did bomb the West coast of the US and I am sure they would have targeted US cities if they had had the capability. @roqf77 The UK may have more immigrants proportionally, but the US has to have more overall. While the US did not win the battle of Britain, do not discredit the contributions of the Eagle squadrons who fought and died to protect the people of Great Britain. The US cannot win the war on terror alone, and it certainly will continue to rely on the support of countries like the UK, Poland, and Australia. But neither the US or the UK has honestly done all it could to help out nations in dire need. Just look at Rwanda. No one stepped up to the plate(French involvment was a joke). While neither country has done a great job, surely one cannot be blamed by the other for the killings of people by genocidal freaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoat Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Stop dropping the f-bomb. There are children around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roqf77 Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 sorry thought i removed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roqf77 Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 but stoat according to the, internstion asylum council. the uk was qouted as having over double the number of asylum seekers. sorry my mistake a typo. but you are right proportianatly there are more people moving to live in the uk., and by the way liam. yes they can, china russia both have trident like nuclear submarines. so yes they can. and if america's to far away explain 9/11? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Originally posted by jon_j_rambo: @Sir Jersey --- Dude, relax, take a deep breathe, this is only cyberspace Thank you Brother Rambo, I have and I am and it is. By the Way, I found an old yellowed paperback with the cover torn off and the first few pages missing, but the whole book starting at page one of the first chapter is there. Leo Durocher, Nice Guys Finish Last (with a professional named Ed Linn doing the actual writing part). I'm half way through and have been laughing my butt off at his stories about behind the scenes, especially in the 20s-60s when he was player, coach and manager. I think it came out around 1975. If you see it anywhere keep it in mind, I'm sure you'd enjoy it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Originally posted by Liam: John, you've a mind for history and well read too.Thank you, Liam, and likewise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Originally posted by roqf77: IF YOU WANT TO POINT THE FINGER, POINT IT AT CHAMBRALIN. No. There was little or nothing Britain or France could have done in 1938 to save Czechoslovakia, just as there was nothing they could do over a year later to save Poland. In fact, it seems probable to me that, if the war had begun at the time of the Munich Conference, Germany would have conquered France within a year and the Battle of Britain would have been fought a year earlier but with Britain being much weaker relative to the Luftwaffe than it was in 1940. So it would have been WWII in Europe a year earlier than historical but with German bombers having free shots over Southern Britain. Chamberlain knew Britatin was ill prepared for a war and also that, if one were fought, the British Empire would become bankrupt and fall apart. Which is exactly what happened historically. What he and the French did at Munich was naiive and not very fair to the Czechs, but he did act in good faith believing Hitler was only out to regain it's lost pride from Versailles. No one seems to have brought up the fact that none of the lost German territory was located in Czechoslovakia and that actual lost German territory was located in Poland. At that time German and Poland were actually pretty friendly, so the thought of Germany attacking it was not in anyone's thoughts. The argument that the German army would have been held at the Sudetan defences (as good as the Maginot Line) is a misconception. That line was made pointless when Germany absorbed Austria. An invasion of Czechoslovakia would have come south of the fortified line, from Austria, and though the Czechs had a good army, it could not have stood alone against Germany's. Pointed fingers need to go back much further. First, to Kaiser Wilhelm II, not for the war's starting, but for not accepting the Anglo-French peace propossal of early 1918. They were willing to acknowledge all the German Empire had gained in Russia and would also have returned Germany's African colonies. Germany, in turn, had to pull back in the west to it's pre-war borders, in other words, pull out of Belgium and Northern France. The Kaiser refused. He wanted Eastern Belgium and also a chunk of French territory so, 1918 came, the Ludendorff Offensive fizzed a little short of Paris and the rest is History. -- If Germany had accepted the peace treaty it would have gained all of Poland and part of European Russia. The Baltic States of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, along with the independent Ukraine (Ukrania) would have been German protectorates. That and the return of her African colonies. What more did Germany want? Second, point a finger at Lloyd George and Clemencau for acting like a pair of greedy and vindictive swine at Versailles. They were the ones who created the situation that made World War Two almost inevitable. If it hadn't been Hitler and the Nazis it would have been some other ultra national German group, I'm certain of that. The only difference being some other group would probably not have had the nazi's psychotic racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 RE: Patton vs Rommel 1. Rommel was probably a better tactical commander than Patton 2. Patton was more aggresive than most other American generals and knew how to take advantage of the superior American logistics resources. 3. Both tended to lead their troops from the front, while many other commanders lead from the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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