Terif - Dragonheart GAME 3 + GAME 4 (1:1)

[Dragonheart]

.

[hellraiser]

congrats on your second win vs terif

[Terif]

War is over – Allies surrendered July 7, 1943.

His 2nd win against me, my 7th lost game at all.

Congratulations for Dragonheart, he played an excellent game that was a lot of fun .

Allied battle record:

- Allies risked a counterattack in France with their strong pieces on an already damaged tank...and lost: the tank survived 4 attacks at str 1. Germany crushed the first defence lines and so saved 2-4 turns in France. Therefore France fell quite early at June 6, 1940.

Nevertheless Allies sunk the german sub that attacked at Brussel and saved 10 ground units + the 2 french med units, so it was not too bad.

- Unfortunately Germany developed already fall 1940 LongRange lv 2 (UK: 5 chits in research, no tech). Shortly after, it also got jets. So Allies had no choice than to hide their units in the north and after Germany researched LR 3, in Ireland.

- Germany made a border mistake that increased russian readiness by 10% and Hungary joined late. On the other side Axis gambled with the start of Barbarossa, were lucky and gained a turn. The low readiness increase of the Axis DoWs finally overcompensated the other effects: russian readiness 5% and US 16% below average. Barbarossa started end of November 1941 together with Spain. Finland joined immediately.

- Western Allies immediately started D-day. In the meantime UK researched with 9 chits and catched up in LR (lv 3), but Germany was still ahead in jets: lv 3 vs UK + USA lv 2. Nevertheless they managed to kill some german AFs, to conquer Brest, Bordeaux and to liberate LC while Axis were busy in Spain and Russia and finally western Allies got also jets 3.

- Since Dragonheart was used to a Turkey invasion AFTER Russia conqueres Finland, Allies used the surprise effect and attacked already in the 3rd turn of Barbarossa . And it was a full success: Axis had no units ready to operate into Turkey, so some turns later Turkey surrendered. Iraq needed a bit more time, but finally was liberated by the strong russian forces (3 HQs with up to 15 heavy units). Axis then built a straight defence line from Beirut to the SE – since german air arrived, Russia couldnt use its own air (jets 0 vs 3) any more. This way no breakthrough possible, but each turn Axis had to repair damages of around 150 mpps and the russian units were slowly but surely collecting experience.

- After Spain was done and Russia had to retreat to Smolensk, Axis had a relieve. Most russian units were busy in the middle east too, so Axis started a counterattack in France with its elite units from Spain and Russia. The allied advance got stopped in July 1942 south of Bordeaux at the spanish border. After heavy battles against the superior german air and ground forces they had to retreat. The commanding structures (HQs) were able to reach the evacuation ports, but most of the US ground forces had to be sacrificed to protect their leaders to enable their escape.

- From Mid 1942 until March 1943 Russia established and hold their defence lines SW of Smolensk. Germany killed each turn a russian corps or two, but in the deathtrap there also every 2nd or 3rd turn a german army or tank got lost . But in March 1943 a german tank survived 5 attacks at str 1 (all did minimum damage...) and Germany was able to overrun the damaged defenders. It finally conquered the russian central mine, Russia abandoned Smolensk and retreated to Kharkov.

- At the same time (March 1943) a damaged german army in Beirut survived also at str 1 which saved Axis the middle east front for a while. But then Axis started a counterattack with 2 german tanks (meanwhile Germany had heavy tanks lv 3 !) and some german AFs, supported by italian forces. This gave Russia the opportunity to kill both tanks in return, to conquer Beirut and push Axis back into the sea. Some italian corps and a german army got destroyed in the fierce battles that followed and finally Axis retreated its surviving units. The Middle east was save now.

- Russia grew quite strong – nevertheless, unbelievable but true: it got not a single tech until 1 turn before Allies surrendered...Russia researched with 5 chits for over 1.5 years and got nothing. Germany in contrary reached at least jets 3, LR 3, HT 3. This way it was not possible to launch a real counterattack since without airsupport and str 13 german tanks in key positions such an operation was hopeless.

- For western Allies on the other side it looked really dark: After they left France, Germany pounded southern England with 8 AFs and moved all remaining naval forces to Brussel. Army and corps transports appeared at the english coast. In March 1943 the last big naval battle occured west of Norway: 4 allied ships got sunk, Axis lost 2 cruisers, 2 battleships and a sub. After the dust settled, only one US battleship was still alive and the entire axis navy had been destroyed. But this didn´t save England against the superior german AFs (8). Due to the german LR 3 Allies were not able to support the defenders around London with HQs (they had to stay out of range to avoid destruction) and finally in Mid 1943 London fell under the heavy air bombardements.

- Russia started a last counterattack with all its strong pieces and the veterans from Iraq to help England. They were able to liberate Smolensk, but then there was no further advance possible against the technical way superior german forces – Germany 8 tech advances ahead of Russia...the russian air still had to hide in the mountains and without airsupport any offensive was doomed to fail – especially against lv 3 tanks entrenched in all key positions.

- The end came fast: Within a few turns the german elite units killed the last 6 defending allied armies + half a dozen corps in England and reached Manchester. In July 1943, the turn before the last fortress would have fallen, Allies surrendered.

It was a really interesting game and with a bit less bad luck in research for Allies (especially Russia...no tech after 1.5 years... ) it could still have gone the other way until nearly the end – with Turkey + Iraq Allies were equal to Axis in mpps/turn .

Since it was a mirror game, we afterwards played the second part with Dragonheart now as Allies and bid 250 (1:5:20). And this game was a really crazy one :

- Germany had excellent combat rolls, conquered Poland and LC turn 2, Denmark turn 3. Allies tried an aggressive french defence with HQ so they were able to kill 2 german tanks, but on the other side France fell early at May 26, 1940 and Allies were not able to save much.

- Axis were very lucky with the minors too, they all joined at the first opportunity and russian readiness increase/turn was also below average so Barbarossa started not until February 1942 – only USA joined early .

- This way Axis had plenty of mpps and invested heavily in research. And here it really got crazy: In October 1940 UK already had LR 2 and jets 1, Axis with 6 chits: nothing.

In June 1941 Axis got the first advance – Germany researching with 10 chits.

Winter 1941 Germany finally catched up to LR 2, still jets lv 0 (5 chits in jets) – immediately UK researched LR 3 .

Until Barbarossa Germany got LR 3 too and also one jet level – naturally UK and USA researched jets 2 when Germany reached lv 1... after Barbarossa UK + USA got jets 3 simultaneously again, Russia researched jets 2 – Germany still at lv 1 with 5 chits...till the end.

- Fortunately Axis had nearly endless mpps due to the good luck with minors and France, so the total inferiority in tech didn´t really matter. Western Allies used their jet and AA advantage to force intercepts (also during the whole year 1941: 2 airbattles each turn), but Germany had more than enough mpps to replace all losses. Western Allies on the other side this way had not enough mpps left to support an invasion and therefore D-day never came.

- Russia probed a forward defence with lots of tanks + armies, built 4 additional AFs and researched nearly immediately jets lv 2. Extremely bloody battles occured in middle Russia with losses of around 2000 mpps and more each turn. So after 6 !! turns the war in the east was over – not much russian survivors, only the HQs were left, Russia lost 5 AFs in combat + 2 in turn 1, one AF survived. Moskov about to capitulate. Allies surrendered July 1942.

Those were 2 really crazy games from the tech side – nevertheless it was a lot of fun with heavy and exciting battles. Dragonheart now really knows how to play the axis side – except for the border thing, a flawless and very good gameplay .

[ December 11, 2004, 05:02 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

[Liam]

Congrats DH

"I sense a great disturbance in the force"

[ December 11, 2004, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Liam ]

[jon_j_rambo]

Is there a changing in the guard taking place? DragonSlowClone has turned Terif's own strategy back onto the master.

[Kuniworth]

three times cheering for Dragonheart:

Gay!

gay!

gay!

[zappsweden]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

Is there a changing in the guard taking place? DragonSlowClone has turned Terif's own strategy back onto the master.

Since Axis have the inner track and the MPP advantage going into Russia, Axis get victory in the long games. As the statistics of Terif show, he has lost ZERO games with Axis but seven games with Allies.

Allies need fast counter in russia or fast landing else they are history.

[Curry]

Dragon, Congrats again! Well done Junior Jedi Master.

[Dragonheart]

Game V+VI to follow this friday with 1:5:30.

We are increasing the bid as long i wont win with axis anymore ag him. On the other hand i have to achieve another target now.....to win also once with allies.

[Terif]

Yep, bids are there to even out the axis advantage and always depend on the experience - and Dragonheart is now a very good player and improved his gameplay a lot in the last months...so the bids have to rise to a higher, appropriate level to balance the game again and to give Allies again the same chance to win as Axis .

[jon_j_rambo]

@Yoda --- I know what your weakness is against DragonSlow. It's something I recognized years ago & have been exploiting against him

[Kuniworth]

I won against Dragon with him as axis. He wins against Terif.

Does this mean that I am really the....best?

[Dragonheart]

@rambo I know what you mean you dont let me play axis by moving the bids high...but thats not really the problem i dont wanna always hear the Dragonslow story so i play allied to provide you with less slow playgaming as my axis game would be

@Kuni Isnt´t that quite gayish to talk about a victory which is 1 year old? I think you would not win even ag my 10 y old son now

[jon_j_rambo]

@DragonSlow --- Nope, the bids aren't what I'm talking about. Terif plays you fundamentally wrong. Remember, I own you. The majority of our games I win or have been,"lets just call it a draw, we've been playing for 24 hours straight, and it's late 1942".

[hellraiser]

err...mathew 1:23 is a...bid ???

[Dragonheart]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

@DragonSlow --- Nope, the bids aren't what I'm talking about. Terif plays you fundamentally wrong. Remember, I own you. The majority of our games I win or have been,"lets just call it a draw, we've been playing for 24 hours straight, and it's late 1942".

Ah so you own me? Well maybe you win more than one half of your games ag me or lets say you win even 3/4 ....but dont forget to say that you are always axis in our games. When playing allied ag me you wont win one single game which has been proved also in the past.

On the other hand it´s more than a joke to assume Terif is playing wrong ag me, a player who knows excactly everybody´s gameplay..who is keeping all saves and even studying somebodys habit to react on certain situations.

Why you always whine about playing 20+ hours straight? I play with other guys also that long and nobody has a problem with it.. If you need a break just tell it.

Just a hint... play more games with allied then you will know the reason why i beat Terif and you beat me....its not because i m better then Terif or he played wrong its because axis side is better and much easier to win.

[zappsweden]

It is a pretty lame excuse blaming your losses against Rambo on that he was Axis since you had your chance to bid for it. I mean, I know you play to win and you would not have given Axis to Rambo as a charity if you had known these outcomes. If giving Rambo Axis is a mistakes does not matter. We all make mistakes in the game too, and that is what separates the better players from the lesser players.

Stop your sorry excuses, Rambo own you

[ December 14, 2004, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: zappsweden ]

[Dragonheart]

Originally posted by zappsweden:

Hmm, when I was a chess player I heards rumors that a great player had said (after losing the finals being black) "I would also have won if I had white".

Now back to SC -> Dragon, it is a pretty lame excuse blaming you losses against Rambo on that he was Axis. I mean, I know you play to win and you would not have given Axis to Rambo as a charity if you had known these outcomes. If giving Rambo Axis is a mistakes does not matter. We all make mistakes in the game too, and that is what separates the better players from the lesser players.

Stop your sorry excuses, Rambo own you

I´m sorry for you that you think so and if you compare axis and allies with white and black in chess then you have missed something.

But if its your opinion i will respect it everybody has its own view.

BTW the overall statistic between Rambo and me is still 50/50 % so he owns just 50 % of me

Edit: Bad luck but i cought your original post so no way to edit for you

[ December 14, 2004, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Dragonheart ]

[zappsweden]

Does not matter, still a lame excuse. You could have bid for Axis if you wanted too.

[Dragonheart]

Yep concerning the Bid you are rite ag Rambo i should try to win not to seek the challenge to beat his axis game... next time one of us will have to play with 275-300 Bid and then there is really no difference if one is playing axis or allies. Good idea zapp.

But you are the specialist ag Rambo as axis as your record ag him shows.

[Codename Condor]

i gave rambo axis side for a charity case and i headcracked him! :eek:

[jon_j_rambo]

@Clone -- Can you get your own takes too? Come on man, you can do better.

[Liam]

Axis are not unbeatable if the Allies do well in France and with tech. The Reds will merely sink all their chits into tech themselves and Fighters and hope for Level4 before it's too late. If you do not kill Reds then before a certian time you're dead cause their tech outweighs you so it's all a balancing game.

The better French defenses you might get from another player aside could be very costly.. If you're delayed till October or even November<worst case the eve of '41> You've Zero chance of winning as Axis unless you're very lucky with the CookieCutter-Readiness Levels-Techs. Actually you'd have to have almost the ideal of conditions granted tactics were fairly evenly matched. Meanwhile I've always heard that Allies have flexible strategies because they can afford errors. If that means Axis cannot then why the extra cash? I think it's to make up for skill rather for actual balance

[hellraiser]

maybe, if they don't lose their carriers

i disagree with Liam over this issue; Axis can win a game even if they get france in december.

Of course it has to be a player who doesn't make imbecile moves like myself - allowing partisans to pop up, moving units out of supply range or other spicy things like these (i am an expert in the most ridiculous moves ever imagined -> that's why ppl love playing against me )

If you have a bad france you can always go the no-dow route to keep readiness down. For example do not DOW vichy or spain. Yeah, you won't be able to take iraq/portugal in the barbie turn - who cares anyway? Reds can't do jack to you even if you have a not so well prepared barbie. Well, some armies will escape, so?

The consequence of a bad france is a small delay. Of course if u lost half of your army in France, the game is most probably over but usually players don't lose that much even against a double HQ early allied strategy.

[Dragonheart]

Its quite simple there are 3 possibilities to defend france

1) Corps defence --> average fall of france early July to early August

Advantage: quite good delay of axis, loosing few MPP´s, saving a couple of units

Disadvantage: Axis will loose hardly one unit and their HQ´s gain at least 2 Stars expierience

2) France HQ defence with corps support --> average fall of france late June to late July

Advantage: allies can kill 2 or 3 axis units and HQ of axis gain less expierence than corps def.

Disadvantage: if one counter fails france will fall much earlier

3) Double HQ defence --> average fall of france late May to late June

Advantage: This strategy can be a winner, axis will loose alot of units or at least alot of MPP,

axis HQ will hardly gain expierence.

Disadvantage: The defence line is very thin so if axis gain an early breakthrough france is dead, GBP loose many MPP due to heavy air involvement and need alot of time to recover from these looses...either they are open to sealion or they cant involve in other areas ...also D-Day will be weak due lack of ground units.

I stick to 75 % with 2) ...if i have luck with holding the first line a bit i defend paris with a tank causing axis further losses and maybe 1 or 2 additional turns but in this case more gbp corps will have to die.

25 % of all times i play with corps defence