Condor's Scandinavian Blitz

[hellraiser]

Final analysis on this new opening called Canary Skando Blitz

Purpose: securing a larger mpp base to mount a more potent attack on LC/France.

Steps:

1. - All out attack in Poland with great chances that Poland surrenders in turn 2.

- Denmark is dowed in turn 1, air from west germany moves in denmark.

- germans place 2 armies in Koenigsberg port, ready to sail to norway in turn 2.

2. german armies from koenigsberg and corps from kiel sail to norway - baltic fleet screens the task force.

3. Norway is conquered using 2 army landings and 2-3 air.

4. After securing Poland, germans deploy the troops on the Rhine (most probably allies did the LC gambit in turn 2); After securing Norway, troops from Norway attack Sweden.

This is the opening and from now on the game can be played in several ways:

1. Get Sweden and keep on the defence on the Rhine until Sweden is taken and german affor to buy the needed air fleets.

2. Invade Sweden and try your luck to bring Italy in or even breakthru allied LC Rhine defence.

3. Go for HU/RO i.e. ZCC.

If I will ever use CSB from now on I would go for the first option - get Sweden while building up for the Rhine fight. Unfortunately this late attack of LC allied held line buys the allies enough time to set up a badass defence. Plus the fact that Paris will fall quite late. Possibly after October or November and with some losses as well.

Even if axis manage to breakthru and capture Paris, the price they will pay will be very, very high. But Paris may eventually fall unless UK invested in techs and got 2 advances over Axis.

If UK did not get any better jets, allies will most probably kill some 2-3 heavy axis units and retreat to UK - it is difficult to defend against 6 LFs even on the Rhine.

Sadly, Condom was not patient and used the second option - tried his luck with troops from Poland only, to get an unit near brussels and M line so he can force Italy in and moreover, he tried to breakthru LC as well. Bad ideea since he lacked the required air support - he had 5 AFs but allies used the london RAF+malta RAF and carriers from Brussels port to keep the LFs at low strength. Low strength means low readiness thus worse rolls. Plus he tried several times to attack with str 3-4 AFs and lost them.

Axis need more air so they can attack every turn, forcing UK to refit instead of making raids. Not even skando cash is enough to refit air and ground units which were constantly under attack by fr HQ-ed units.

Now, this pesky Canary complained I went all-in or berserk or whatever and also complained I kept talking about the rolls.

Regarding the first thing - allies have good rolls against axis' stuff placed on the river and if axis put an unit near brussels (open terrain) allies have 3 ground attack hexes (one of which is brussels, hence the surprise attack bonus from using the port) + 2 RAFs + carriers if needed to finish that unit off. So this is not, by any means, a reckless attack - it is a very good success rate having only normal rolls.

Regarding the second thing - we were basically testing his new strategy so a discussion about rolls is necessary. I tried to show him where his strategy is prone to failing because of rolls - for example when he used 2 armies and only 1 air for norway - average of 10 vs Oslo corps thus quite risky.

Attacking the LC forest french army using 2 ground attacks over the Rhine and air. This is a pure gamble because armies while attacking from a river hex have big penalties - rolls were 1-1 for the armies + 5 LFs hitting for 1-1 or something. So basically you have an average of 7 !!! And you're telling me this is sound strategy?

I was just trying to explain this and you jumped on me to quit talking about rolls!

Just admit you got nervous because 5 times you tried and failed. Don't blame me for your pathetic failures and lack of patience.

Was I supposed to play a corps defence and let you march unopposed thru LC and France? Come on ...

Everytime you stopped me in France, you used London RAF + carriers from ports, praying to score 5 damage on my air. Not to mention attacking the army /tank in the french forest hex when I managed to breakthru - you used unsupported french armies for that - what were the rolls to kill the tank? Very low but you did kill it because you got the max rolls. So you are allowed to go for a gamble game and if I play an aggressive defence, you have the nerve to blame me for playing a reckless game? It is one sided and unfair.

[hellraiser]

@Jenna Jameson Rambo - dewd, who's trying to be you? How can anyone ever aim to be you? To sleep with that crazy Yoda doll every night and take photo shots at it the next morning? Does that doll prepare breakfast for you? That doll must have taught you that 'America uber alles' **** you're flipping everytime you talk about USA being the center of the universe... Dude, grow up and don't try to be a legend no more - you just don't have what it takes

[jon_j_rambo]

@Crapraiser --- You've snapped son. If it wasn't for the USA, you'd be in some wheatfield for the Motherland earning a penny per day. Goto the city I mentioned about the other Americans converting your nation! Now, you hide, turn on your ICQ & play me biotch.

[Codename Condor]

Well, ****bringer u trying to write and essay or what. U only know to talk about rolls: u defeated me with 5 RAF hits from port, yer strategy is based on good rolls, oh what good rolls there, oh 4 times in a row maximum damage, oh oh my, whinning, crying. Seriously, u completely broke me down with that kind of ****. I told u online and yes i posted it. If u got pissed about that, well think i got more pissed.

And man, CSB is new, i dont play test it (like u do as far i know) so think as u were my guinea pig, i made so many errors and stupid moves i just cant tell. The thing is CSB is still to be exploited and with a hardcore defense it would be suitable to wait to get Sweden.

Sorry if u went pissed by my post, u didnt went pissed when i told u online but u went crazy when i posted it? i think u overreacted a lot and u r still overreacting.

And if i didnt make meself clear I CANT STAND WHINNERS talking all the time about rolls! Thats all here!

[Codename Condor]

Originally posted by hellraiser:

Final analysis on this new opening called Canary Skando Blitz

I was just trying to explain this and you jumped on me to quit talking about rolls!

Just admit you got nervous because 5 times you tried and failed. Don't blame me for your pathetic failures and lack of patience.

Was I supposed to play a corps defence and let you march unopposed thru LC and France? Come on ...

Everytime you stopped me in France, you used London RAF + carriers from ports, praying to score 5 damage on my air. Not to mention attacking the army /tank in the french forest hex when I managed to breakthru - you used unsupported french armies for that - what were the rolls to kill the tank? Very low but you did kill it because you got the max rolls. So you are allowed to go for a gamble game and if I play an aggressive defence, you have the nerve to blame me for playing a reckless game? It is one sided and unfair.

Getting nervious? about this game? I think u took this too seriously. I committed so many mistakes, moving wrong units, we were reloading games all the time, playing like this was some kind of testing if i remember right there was no money on it aint it? Geez, man, and u talking about getting nervious? U still dont get my point, it was all about the conversation we were having not about the game. I got fed up. I only played focus on the last game, not a single error, when u stopped talking.

Come on, search the forum and look for a post of mine talking about rolls. I just dont care about rolls, i just dont pray for good rolls. I play for strategy and fun and u should stop yer talking and play that way.

[Codename Condor]

Rambo dude, i thought u were retired. didnt cacht u online this weeks ive been on fire! Now i have new projects now maybe i couldnt be playing for a time. So u will cacht me rusty and that way u can beat me

[Codename Condor]

Holy crap the **** i have to stand!

[ September 05, 2005, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Codename Condor ]

[jon_j_rambo]

Crapraiser & Condor pictured here on the Jerry Springer Show! And the crowd chanted,"Jerry, Jerry, Jerry..."

[hellraiser]

@JJR - Dudenstein, I am away from town, only in weekends I'm home - sure we can play, I'll scout for you on ICQ.

@Condomeeza Rice - punk, you're pathetic and a sorry ass loser.

You tried 5 times to cross the river and got assraped everytime, now you're saying you were asleep, did wrong moves and ****. Why did you play anyway if ya couldn't focus?

And in the last game you did no mistakes - sure, but you went for hungary and romania and then, pumped up with 6 -7 air and tech you rolled over france! Obviously you did, because no way in hell i can defend against 6-7 air, having no jets!!! That's why I killed some stuff and fled to UK. Ask Zapp, we've been playing his ZCC like 100000 times and every game I did the same thing I did in our game!

And yes, there were test games with lots of reloads and mulligans! How many times I reloaded because you said you had screwed up i don't know what move? I even took LC once with a faggot french army instead of UK corps and still held ya on the Rhine!

In test games we should be talking about rolls as well especially because you were unpatient and did not wait to build up before attacking LC so obviously you needed good rolls.

Dude, I ain't no punk ass gambler, I've scored against every BF veteran and not solely because of good rolls and ****. I know what i'm talking, I helped the strategy development as good as I could - why everybody is using these days the axis opening DH and I worked on it ?

Dude, a strategy needs not to depend only on rolls, this is my point. Ok, if you got ONLY bad rolls, you lose no matter what strategy you use.

But you played the CSB to depend only on rolls, not me. And when you employ something risky, you need luck - plain and simple.

Our games were attempts at refining a new strategy based on your ideeas and if u remember i told you 'give me your best and I will try to give my best on defence' - obviously you're not up to the task. The only person with whom I can calmly develop new strategies and counters is Zapp. At least these days.

So enjoy that tourney victory against me, go in front of the looking glass and say 'oh, i'm better that that punk ass ****crapsmokeraiser', laugh and go play in the backyard. We won't be playing any games anytime soon, dude. I've got better ppl to play - Rambo, for example. Who is crying all the time my allies got 3 jets advances and his axis got squat But the guy is on the level and he knows da game and even if we ocassionaly bitch and moan about the other's techs and uber rolls, or make fun one of another in the forum, we still play together because there is this little thing called respect.

[Codename Condor]

Hellwhiner,

Dude knock it off. Stop being so pathetic. Now u talking about new strategies uve been developing and naming after u? Man i was using the north corps breaktrhu before and its not worth a name...Keep on play testing other peoples strategies...Pathetic.

Now u bring the tourney stuff? get a life! u wanna whine about it too? Man i dont give a damn about that tourney but the final..., was a walk in the park, not even against a noob i took paris so easily, Kuni fought with more guts. u were kinda "gay" there.

Now go with with Zappson and talk about rolls and terifs, thats the only thing u know.

[zappsweden]

Is it a coincidence that this topic was about a new strategy and ended with a bitch talk festival? :eek:

Something fishy? Some heavy pride involved here?

To understand it, lets roll the tape back...

Condor. You (like me) invented a controversial original strategy that struggles. You keep defending it and try to improve it (like me) but there the similarities end. You now seem to escape from the controversy by behaving like a bitch and spit on others and complain that the other players use sucky play and strategies, especially since you seem to be losing alot when using the strat.

How many players have said that my "ZCC sux? You know what, I lost the count. But did I, like you, act like a biotch then just to save my pride?

Don't blame it on your opponents that they chat too much in the game, restart the game or play the aggressive style or something else. Cheap excuses, son.

Your strategy sux... or not. Is it the end of the world?

Take it like a man dude. :cool:

If Jack Nicholson was here, you pretty much know he would have said... "You Can't handle the truth!"

Nuff Said. :cool:

[ September 06, 2005, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: zappsweden ]

[Kuniworth]

Zapp your reply is inconsistent. For instance at one point you wrote "bitch" and then later "biotch". Just wanna know how it's gonna be?

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by Codename Condor:

Kuni fought with more guts. u were kinda "gay" there.

Well as I said. You can be gay as in happy or gay as in gay. Then people also can act gay in a sense by enjoying to lose eg they get it up the ole chocolate alley. That resembles I guess to be the less dominate part in a gay relations but will spoil your gay(as in happy) victory. No one likes to win gainst someone who gets turned on by losing.

I think you are not using the gay-word correctly my friend. Unless you mean Gayraiser moaned and yelled like a feminine guy eg the probable bitch in a S&M gay relationship.

>>>just wanna clearify things. Over and out.

[zappsweden]

Yeah and Kuni, now go back to your pals Kowolski and Howolski and play your Dungeons & Dragons rollplay boardgames.

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by zappsweden:

Yeah and Kuni, now go back to your pals Kowolski and Howolski and play your Dungeons & Dragons rollplay boardgames.

CNN; Ah and here we see The Zwedish chef moving for a futile smack attempt. Needless to say Kuni easily fended off the assault....

[Mr.Dozer]

just use 2 army to land next to sweden and they take the force out and have one corp land and take the city. next turn they surrendered.

I just have demo so i cant totally give much, just my thought on sweden. Getting game friday so i will be able to see better later.

[zappsweden]

Originally posted by Mr.Dozer:

just use 2 army to land next to sweden and they take the force out and have one corp land and take the city.

Mr.Dozer

In TCP/IP we don't do reloads so you would not get Stockholm too often with that attack force.

[Mr.Dozer]

i used demo, i dont have reload.

i tried 2 time each worked. Drop the to armies right next to capital, they each took 5 guys. City was open and dropped in corp. They didnt surrender, tried to fight but the port supplied them so no need for hq. Also next turn they surrendered.

Fall gleb senario.

[Mr.Dozer]

i just saw what you meant, please excuse my ignorance, i guess its better to be secured assault than risked.

i mean the force that takes norway the goes for sweden should have a hq

[hellraiser]

Mr. Dozer - you brought up Condoreeza's favourite subject ROLLS

Now serious, each landing army have a 0-4 expected roll against that swedish defender; then the +1/-1 rule apply, meaning that army can score a max damage (x-5), min damage (x-3) etc. It seems both times your armies scored maximum thus killing off that defender. Try it some more times and you'll see the luck evening out.

@Con - it may be that this HDO opening was invented by you - i don't know, I was not around when you used to play this game. So if the credit should go to you, bravo - i have nothing to bitch about.

Nevertheless, DH and I worked on this in an attempt to boost the axis' start and have those polish creeps surrender faster. Ppl are using aggro strategies in France so axis need the punch a little bit earlier. Regardless of who played it first, it is one of the most potent axis openings - retaining heavy striking power in poland for turn 2 while having more than adequate hitting power for LC turn 2.

- regarding the tourney - i can't remember in which thread i whined, I simply did not. Taking paris early - true, I f*cked around that game and got punished, i admit it

The group game was a joke for me, you went all in and lost everything so I thought - heck, why shouldn't i f*ck around in the finals? And if i lose what?

The second finals game was ok, you played well (an excellent russian gameplay I may say) and deserved the win.

I admitted it long ago - you fully deserved to win the finals. Instead of focusing I played like ****, true. So no way in hell I would have deserved to win that tourney.

No one said you weren't a good player. You know the game, you can beat a lot of ppl around. But this doesn't take away the fact that you're a punk and a sorry ass loser.

Geee, I was asleep, I moved wrongly, didn't wait to build up - you come up with these lame excuses and dare accuse me of playing recklessly or playing a gamble game.

Who's the one bitching and finding excuses?

We had some nice games in the past days, with a lot of funny chatting and generally a good attitude. There were discussions about rolls everytime we played - I asked you what was, in your opinion, the best way around that badass raf+carriers **** you used to beat my ass in france - a strategy that is highly roll dependant imho. I always chat about strategy, rolls, etc because every game I play is an opportunity to learn new things, even from a punk ass like you. And because this is what SC is about - a strategy and a dice ...

[Dragonheart]

Man what a fun to read this my favorites are

-helwhiner

-suckraiser

-crapraiser

-condom

-condomeza rice

-sucksweden and many more ....

A bit early for a chrismas riot isnt it?

Keep this tread going i wanna read some more grazy names.

...yeah ....and pls dont insult me i´ m just a visitor not a SC player

Greetings Dragonheart

[hellraiser]

Dragonpunk? LOL

[jon_j_rambo]

DragonLurk is still around. Yes, retired, but from what? Don't let anybody kid you guys, BF-Forum is Centercourt & the Fritz is always sniffing this place.

[hellraiser]

Dragon is playing that WaW with Avatar from what I hear ...

[Dragonheart]

@rambo my last games were centercourt games so dont worry

@Hellraiser nope i dont play WaW anymore; currently i play some RPG´s ...Dungeoncrawl...hacking and slaying monsters .....it´s almost the same like slaying Centercourtdudes in SC

Edit:

Btw concerning your discussion...

There are lots of new and old strategies out here everybody is claiming that his one is the best but in fact when the surprise factor is over every game is dependend from creative skill, stratetical planing, masterplan, improvisation, not to be overconfident and finally patience.

Every strategy can be leart we call it HDO,DHI,ZCC,RAI,ZAS or whatever but when the phase is over and is going into the free-game-phase then you will need all the skills above.

There are lots of excellent players out here but everybody is lacking some important feats. When you overcome their learnt strategies and make it into the free-game-phase and your disadvantage has not grown to high you have mostly won.

Some examples would be (pls dont be pissed with me but everybody will know it itself)

-Rambo -->has almost all feats but lacks patience

-HR --> has mostly no masterplan trying something there then something somewhere else ...and mostly no patience too.

-Zapp --> tends to be overconfident after a good start and is underestimating his opponent, lacks also some improvisation.

-Liam -->lacks mostly a masterplan and improvisation

-Avatar has no special weakness

-Terif is perfect

-Sombra tends to be overconfident in late game and also lacks patience

-Dalmatia lacks strategical planning and some creative skill

-Condor Don´t know much about that guy as i never played him but reading some AAR´s i think patience is his problem

-Kuni Did not play him for a long time he is getting distracted by to many things during gameplay AFAIK

-me I´m lacking a masterplan with allies only

Greetings DH

[ September 09, 2005, 03:47 AM: Message edited by: Dragonheart ]