Axis vs. Allied PBEM Challenge!!!

[Hubert Cater]

OK with the ongoing debate in terms of game balance, I would like to propose an Axis vs. Allied PBEM challenge for any of you willing to put your bravery and skill on the line

Just for the record, I will once again state that I am currently OK with the present game setup and that includes research model etc., but in order to get a better idea if I am off my rocker or not, let's have at it.

I suggest that all consistent Axis winners and all consistent Allied winners contact me and I'll setup the challenges so I can keep track of the results. I will take the first 10 Axis players and first 10 Allied players for the test. I am thinking 1939 Campaign with all default options and 2 out of 3 for each set should give a decent result.

With any proposed changes not being seriously considered until after TCP/IP I think it will be an interesting test.

Any takers? Contact me at hcater@furysoftware.com and state your side

Hubert

[ September 13, 2002, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: Hubert Cater ]

[Sol Invictus]

Your on!

[Hubert Cater]

Anyone else?

Hubert

[gorski]

Count me in for either side. I am currently playing my 4th and 5th pbem. Undefeated so far.

Gorski

[daystrom]

No FOW Hubert? That removes the "sneaky factor".

regards,

Ray

[Hubert Cater]

Oops, my mistake, I would say FoW and with 'Undo' disabled would make for the best test.

Thanks!

Hubert

P.S. Still have some openings, anyone else up for the challenge?

[Norse]

Count me in as axis

[Fubarno]

I'm 3 for 3, 2 as axis and one as allies. I'm in 2 others now, both as allies, that are undecided. I'll be someones punching bag as the allies.

[sogard]

I know that Hubert has posted that he is undefeated in playing either the Axis or the Allies in STRATEGIC COMMAND (SC). I mentioned this to a friend who I was playing SC with last night and his response was that was not too surprising as the game manual is so vague and unspecific (intentionally if I understand what Hubert has said about this in other posts) that play experience is a critical factor when looking at the outcome of any given game. I know that I am surprised in almost every game by a rule or game concept which I thought worked one way; but actually works differently in the game.

It seems to me that any test regarding "balance" in the game needs to involve similarily experienced players with the game. I have won most of my games, of late, playing both the Axis and Allies. There do seem to be several different strategies open to each side with the technology race being the largest wild card. But, just last night, an opponant of mine was surprised by how fast U.S. and Soviet war entry was when he attempted an invasion of Britian (in what appeared to be a vulnerable Britian in July 1940 with France still unconquered).

Granted it is fun to learn more about a game through playing than having all its secrets revealed in a manual; but, SC is so vague on many matters that it is not surprising that Hubert (who knows all the elements) is confident in being able to exploit the game's advantages against less knowledgeable players.

I like the fact that SC does place the gamer in the situation of the actual historical leaders. I am sure neither Churchill or Roosevelt could consult the "Big Book of War" to determine exactly what the odds were at any given point. But, given this situation, there is no substitute for experience playing the game and actually learning from this experience.

[gorski]

Nahh. The Beta Boys probably just suck.

<ducks>

[pzgndr]

Immer Etwas and I shall take on the challenge in another PBEM game. He scored an Axis victory in our first game so we'll swap sides and see how it goes.

We played without Free French and with historic US entry before, which does seem to give the Axis an advantage. Hubert's defaults should provide more balance. And some of the changes in v1.4 will also help.

[Gregory Barnard]

Count me in!

[DevilDog]

I'm currently playing Allies against Jolly as Axis. We'll let you know how it goes.

[zappsweden]

count me in as axis!

[Doomsday1]

Originally posted by DevilDog:

I'm currently playing Allies against Jolly as Axis. We'll let you know how it goes.

DOG:

(I like the sound of that!) Nothing personal, ok...I just want to wish you "luck" You will need that and more. J.G is going to deal you a humiliating defeat...I would stake a gentlemens's wager on it. He quite convincingly whopped my alied forces. I never had a chance.

IMHO, the allied player simply cannot overcome the advantages gained by early axis conquests, shrewd research,and good strategic play. So do....keep us posted!

[DevilDog]

Doomsday1:

DOG:

(I like the sound of that!) Nothing personal, ok...I just want to wish you "luck" You will need that and more. J.G is going to deal you a humiliating defeat...I would stake a gentlemens's wager on it. He quite convincingly whopped my alied forces. I never had a chance.

Don't put me in my grave just yet. So far everything predictable has happened. Axis forces took Poland in turn 3. Then Denmark. Next came the low countries. France fell around the beginning of June IIRC. The Atlantic Axis subs were wiped out early. Brest was occupied by Allied forces for several turns after France fell. Sicily was occupied by Allied forces for several turns as well. The Italian navy made an unsuccessful attempt to take out the Gibralter fleet. The German navy was wiped out in an abortive attempt to take Norway (although the landing may still be successful).

IMHO, the allied player simply cannot overcome the advantages gained by early axis conquests, shrewd research,and good strategic play. So do....keep us posted!

The Germans have already advanced in Jet research. The British have made advances too, although I am not at liberty to expound further. The key for the Allies is to keep bending, but don't break.

[Doomsday1]

Dog:

Thanks for the update. Sounds like Jolly Green Giant, or whatever his handle is, (just kidding) is playing within the historical parameters as we know them.

For $19.99, I will sell you all hie pet moves (again joking). Do the Allies proud!

[P z B]

Ok I'll give it a try as Axis

[Hubert Cater]

Message for Johan, received your request to join the challenge a few days ago, but my replies to your inbox have been consistently returned as "Exceeded Quota" etc., please contact me again and hopefully we can still get you in there for a game or two.

Hubert

[Hubert Cater]

Thanks everyone for their responses, I think we've got enough players for now to have an interesting test group. I'll keep everyone posted as to the results which will probably be in a week or so.

Hubert

[RicKhan]

I'm willing to be an alternate. If u need one for either axis or allies.

[Jollyguy]

Hubert;

FYI, I have one game going with DevilDog. We've made progress through France, and are scheduled for about 2 turns a day, so we should have an idea within a week +/- which way the wind is blowing on that one.

As to the other game you set me up with (Brian), I believe he may be having trouble loading his PBEM turns. I haven't got a reply turn back yet since I sent him my opening move last week. If you'd like to set me up with an alternate I'd be willing to give it a roll. I would do Axis.

Bob

[DevilDog]

OK, latest update on the JollyGuyAxis vs. DevilDogAllies campaign. We just completed turn 60. Due to national security I will of course be somewhat tight lipped about my assets. At the beginning of last turn Jolly took Yugo with 3 armies, 2 corps, 7 air groups and 1 bomber. And he needed each attack to take it too. Although Yugo fell, I extracted some revenge by destroying his lone air group in the West with massed air attacks of my own. All his units are massed along the Soviet border, if he transports them west to deal with Britian he runs the risk of being caught flat footed by Russia. If he doesn't transport at least some more west, then he leaves himself wide open for a massed invasion of France.

He did get some lucky research rolls - his seven remaining air fleets are tech level 2 (not level 3 like I said in another post where I mistakenly counted level 0 as level 1).

A few turn ago the Italians and British hashed it out with a massive naval action in the Med. Although they managed to send a British cruiser and battleship to the bottom, the Italians lost two battleships themselves, with their remaining cruiser down to 1, and last battleship down to 4. The sub had significant damage as well.

Things should start happening pretty fast within the next few turns. If the Allies win it will be a long protracted affair. The Axis will have a small window of opportunity, where if everything goes well for them they can overwhelm Russia. But if Russia holds for the first several turns things will get increasingly hard for the Axis. It's already October 1941. When Russia comes in she will have a significant MPP stockpile. And the eastern front basically boils down to a battle of attrition.

Stay tuned.

[DevilDog]

By the way, how are the other combatants in the contest doing?

[DevilDog]

Jolly invaded Russia on turn 63. The only suprise was the four level 5 tanks that I've seen so far. He has massed his airforce to the south. America has come in, so now all the players are in the game. I would say the next 10 turns will show if the Axis will be immediately victorious. For every turn after that the odds will decrease that the Axis will be able to defeat the Allies.