Hubert Cater Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Historically though, without air supremacy- there would have been no d-day.Damage between combating air fleets is the same, so there should be no real change to achieving air supremacy Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 withdrawing forces from France This strikes me as a terribly gamey tactic to take advantage of the Free French rule. Historically, Anglo-French relations were strained and you wouldn't have seen French forces withdrawing to Britain while Paris held. I'd prefer to see this prohibited, and surviving French units after surrender given a random chance of evacuating to Britain - like Italian units displaced from Vichy France back to Italy. Maybe later. French fleets offer a powerful opportunity to help hunt down and kill either the German or Italian navy prior to their elimination. There's no incentive to not sacrifice them to accomplish this goal, and I routinely do it against the AI. As allies yesterday on normal settings, I completely destroyed both axis navies in short order. This also strikes me as a gamey tactic, but I'm not sure what a good "solution" may be. Perhaps limit French naval attacks to within so many hexes of France IF axis units are in France? This may not be a major issue in human play with a competent axis player, but some historical limitations on the French navy could be considered as an optional rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce70 Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Originally posted by gorski: Yep, what Aesop said. I will take it a step beyond 'exercise in futility'. Any English unit that lands in Europe without a port to escape from will die fast. This assumes Russia is not in the war yet.As I said, it was successful once against an inexperienced player who wasn't expecting it, but in general I agree with you. However, if you are playing the Germans against a human player and you assume your opponent wont land British or Canadian units behind the French/German line you will be taking a considerable risk. Once again this is something I would try very rarely, OTOH reinforcing the French line is something that I do quite regularly. Every turn that France can hold is very valuable for a number of reasons. As a minimum I reinforce with the Canadian army even if I don't replace losses in that army. (That is assuming I don't take Norway which is also a good strategy since few German players will waste the time recapturing it I think.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesop Posted July 17, 2002 Author Share Posted July 17, 2002 There should be no historical handicapping as you are playing this game with hindsight and you use whatever tactic or strategy in order to win! That's the purpose of this game. To exercise what if scenarios and use your wit and imagination to the fullest. :eek: If you have to squeeze every single MPP or sacrifice others, go for it. If Hubert holds a tourney for the right to be in the beta of SC2, what would you do quo vadis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce70 Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I agree with you on that point but I think an astute German player will be able to take advantage of your tactic. It might make some sense to reduce the strength of Vichy France's units if they were previously removed. Or perhaps the units to garrison Vichy could be taken from active French units before any decision/calculation concerning free-French armies/navies. This would seem to make sense but it is not important to me since I don't think you can gain much from this tactic anyway. You are simply wasting MPPs transporting units (that will be of little value later in the game) instead of using the MPPs to reinforce the front line. The only time I remove the garrison from Algiers, for example, is when I am moving it to the front line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 IMO the Free French option shuld be turned off anyway, as nothing even vaguley like it happened "in real life". Those French units that managed to get away were in no better state than the British ones, and IIRC no major surface fleet units joined the English. However I do have a couple of questions about alternative allied strategies. the last couple of night's I've tried invading Italy nd Iraq. I managed to KO italy in 2 turns using the 4 Mediteranean corps, the a/c carrier and all 3 RAF units (based in Sth France) plus the French BB al attacking Rome - how on earth do people do it in 1 turn?? And Iraq similarly - using the whole RAF and 3 Corps I couldn't scratch the defenders of Baghdad much at all! [edited 'cos I can't spell for carp! ] [ July 17, 2002, 03:31 AM: Message edited by: Stalin's Organ ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 One of the adjustments made for the final version was for when Allied units are taken off of key positions in the Medeterranean. What will happen is that if Allied units are removed from their current garrison assignments then Italian interest will be peaked for entry into the war. This will add a risk to the gamey tactic of using/disbanding med units for alterior purposes since Italy may enter the war earlier than expected. This can affect sneak attack plans on Italy or even the idea of using French med units as potential Free French Units etc. In general, what I am trying to do with all gamey tactics is to make them less attractive but not completely eliminate them since as stated here they are a part of the "what if" of the game. Consider this one for you Straha since it makes things a little tougher for the Allies! Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce70 Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 And Iraq similarly - using the whole RAF and 3 Corps I couldn't scratch teh defendrs of Baghdad much at all! I suspect you would need a HQ to take Iraq (or 3 German tank units ). The only way quick/easy victories have been achieved with the demo is by utilizing(abusing?) the surprise attack feature (in Italy, Sweden, Denmark, the Baltic states and to a lesser extent Norway and probably others that I have not thought of). You can't do that for Iraq and so you need either overwhelming force (3 tank units for example) and take it in 1 turn or a HQ unit so you have enough supply to wear it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 There should be no historical handicapping as you are playing this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straha Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Originally posted by Hubert Cater: SNIP Consider this one for you Straha since it makes things a little tougher for the Allies! HubertThanks! The idea to make the Italians "suspicious" if certain things happen in the med is superb! :cool: Straha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Originally posted by Straha: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hubert Cater: SNIP Consider this one for you Straha since it makes things a little tougher for the Allies! HubertThanks! The idea to make the Italians "suspicious" if certain things happen in the med is superb! :cool: Straha</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straha Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 Originally posted by SuperTed: SNIP Agreed! I wonder who thought of that one... Cool bananas, SuperTed-San. Straha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 Yup I gotta give credit where credit is due, and SuperTed was certainly on fire with that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorski Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 One of the adjustments made for the final version was for when Allied units are taken off of key positions in the Medeterranean. What will happen is that if Allied units are removed from their current garrison assignments then Italian interest will be peaked for entry into the war.Which units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 Good point, pretty much if any of the allied positions in the med are abandoned, it can raise Italian suspicion Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 Originally posted by Hubert Cater: Yup I gotta give credit where credit is due, and SuperTed was certainly on fire with that one! Hubert, Thanks, man. [ July 18, 2002, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: SuperTed ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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