"PeaceKeeper"

[Peter Cairns]

Has anyone ever looked at or suggested a modern day version of CM?

At first I thought that like many updates of board games, ( going back more than 25 years to SPI's "Panzer 44" becoming "Mechwar 77") modern weapons would overwhelm the game system, 14" artillery and Me109's are bad enough without MLRS salvos, and A-10's.

However with the growth in small scale "bushfire" wars and Peacekeeping their is a real sense in which although available these weapons cannot be brought to bear.

Be it Bosnia, Somalia, or Sierra leon, we see western forces engaged on a daily basis in CM scale operations, conducted at company level.

One of the key things that would come in which is missing from CM are Civilians, targets which cannot be attacked by one or both sides and which may are may not be enemies.

These might be covered quite well by the fog of war rules, and might include semi units which could spot for an enemy but not fight giving them a tactical advantage.

Similiarly searching buildings could well be covered by an adaption of the mechanism for clearing mines.

AAAAt first because of their speed I thought Helicopters would be a problem, but given that they have to stop to land and that you have to spot and judge the terrain would make them no more difficult than jeeps, and the biggest constraint would be their vulnerability.

One reason I am keen on this is that I genuinely think that playing CM has made me more aware of the challenge and nature of small unit combat. A Peacekeeper version of CM would potentially be a good training tool for the military but more importantly might do to educate the public into just how difficult it actually is.

Being in the UK and talked to people who have been in both Bosnia and Northern ireland, it is amazing how many people thay meet who say "Why didn't you Just.....", and just have no idea quite how difficult the task on the ground really is.

What do people think...

Peter.

[Ex Bellator]

Interesting idea, what I can say is that BTS have previously stated there are no plans for a modern version precisely because of the scale issues in modern warfare you mentioned.

I think that a Peacekeeper variant would be feasible but I can forsee that the market may not be as big as for an all-encompassing Modern version. Also I think it would be difficult to decide what to include and what to leave out.

[Peter Cairns]

You may well b right about the demand, however with the US moving towards £"Objective Force" a game built around the lighter high mobility BCT concept(Brigade Combat Team's),might be more topical and therefore more marketable.

Alternatively given that the basic engine is already there and that there is a healthy and inovative community around CM, it could well start life as an add on Patch, or home made scenario. I am sure a lot of the things taht have been produced by fans will amke their way into CM2.

Peter.

[Pzman]

Beleve me kids this isn't a new idea. The scale of a moddern battle feild is hug compard even to the eastern front that will be used in CM2 so don't expect it any time soon as BTS is keeping to WW2 till at lest CM4 so lets just end it with that.

[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: Panzerman ]

[The Commissar]

Sometimes I doubt how much fun a "modern" (as in late 90's early 2000) can be.

Technology advanced so much that combat in general has become much easier for the high-tech nation such as the US. Take a look at the new "Land Warrior" program. The soldier is equiped with everything from a gun that can look around corners to a heat/motion/radar that can spot hidden enemies. Now, of course this is good to the fighting man. He doesn't die nearly as much. However, how much fun is it to play?

Turn 1: Your units deploy at map edge. Turn on radar and switch through different modes. Satelites indicate enemy positions in secots 16, 27, and 33.

Turn 2: Call in heavy precision guided arty to pound positions into dust.

Turn 3: Move troops to a position overlooking enemy placement. Pick off left over troops from 2000 feet away.

Turn 4: Total Vic.

Whoopee...

Ok, I know this isnt exactly how things are. Yes, there are difficulties sometimes. It just seems that the more technology advances, the less effort is put into combat. Its more like a high tech bush whack.

Now, a cold war game I could understand. Generally equal technologies and odds, equipment which is fun but not "unbeatable", etc. Just my thoughts.

[WWB]

Well, a truly modern game in the current sense would probably not be too much fun. But a game set in the 1970s or 1980 would be alot more fun. While modern weapons systems would be avaliable, they would not be the insanely deadly modern generation of tools. The microchip had not yet completely revolutionized warfare. Not to mention that the soviets had a 3 to 1 superiority on the old IGB.

Plus you can do that whole NATO-Pact thing. And there the fighting would be on ground not too dissimilar to CMBO, meaning good ol' restricted sightlines, etc. I can see the first scenario now: Last Defense Re-Revisited: The 3rd ACR has to hold off the soviet horde until the air cav arrives! Can it be done?

WWB

[aka_tom_w]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wwb_99:

Well, a truly modern game in the current sense would probably not be too much fun. But a game set in the 1970s or 1980 would be alot more fun. While modern weapons systems would be avaliable, they would not be the insanely deadly modern generation of tools. The microchip had not yet completely revolutionized warfare. Not to mention that the soviets had a 3 to 1 superiority on the old IGB.

Plus you can do that whole NATO-Pact thing. And there the fighting would be on ground not too dissimilar to CMBO, meaning good ol' restricted sightlines, etc. I can see the first scenario now: Last Defense Re-Revisited: The 3rd ACR has to hold off the soviet horde until the air cav arrives! Can it be done?

WWB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think Flashpoint 1985 has that one just about covered.

-tom w

[gunnergoz]

I think that the '50's and '60's would be the most interesting East-West confrontations that CM could conceivably play host to.

A lot of the hardware was basically WWII upgraded stuff (90mm Pattons and 17/20-lbr (?) Centurions vs 100mm T-54's) and helicopters hadn't made their impact yet. Infantry weapons ditto. Big challenges for the U.S. before the advent of smart weapons and ATGM's. Troop quality varied greatly (especially after VietNam started draining resources). Scads of different NATO and Eastern Bloc weapons and troops...need I say more? Sounds juicy, don't it?

Think of it as WW2 on steroids I think CMII could probably handle it...we need to start harassing BTS about it after CMII is under development, whenever that happens.

[Mr. Johnson--]

Red Storm Entertainment tried to make a modern mechinized game, called Force 21. Even had a Desert Storm General working on the game. General Fred Franks. But it was not that great because the designers decided to keep the specs down for low end computers which limited the horizon to like 800m. So all engagments were point blank. Pretty sad really, It had so much potential. No infantry in the game either.

It would be cool if Steve and Charles gave Harry Turtledove a call and convinced him to make a World War series game. It would be cool to fight the race. It would be sweet to see those advancing little lizards with SMGs. And Killercraft racing around the skies.

[Vanir Ausf B]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rex_Bellator:

Interesting idea, what I can say is that BTS have previously stated there are no plans for a modern version precisely because of the scale issues in modern warfare you mentioned. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One minor correction. BTS has stated there will be no modern CM with the current graphics engine. They have voiced interest in doing a modern CM sometime after CM4, although there are no actual plans as of yet.

Steve did say that if they did do a "modern" CM it would most likely be a hypothetical NATO-Warsaw Pact conflict ~1980.

[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ]