Clinton Posted June 5, 2001 Share Posted June 5, 2001 Will there be the option to drive vehicles out of dug in positions, abiet very slowly. During the German surge into Russia in Spring of '42 Panzer units reported being able to pick of Solviet tanks because they were dug in and could manuever around them. When the Solviets saw this they began pulling driving the tanks out of the entrenchments. Germans likened them to large tortoises. Just htought it would be a good addition. Thanks, Clinton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Johnson-- Posted June 5, 2001 Share Posted June 5, 2001 Thats a great Idea. It sounds like we are already getting trenches. But if we are going to get bunkers where we can stick a few squads in to protect from arty will be in CM2. Same thing with tank entrenchments. Will be interesting to see what Charles and Steve decide to run with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 Isn't the dug-in position made so that you can reverse out of them. As I see it it's just a ramp where you're hull down, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixx Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 Yeah thats what they are supposed to be. Anyone remember the Operational Art of War version 2 opening movie? It had tanks driving into preprepared dug outs. I believe they also used T-34 turrets as a static defensive AT gun. A bit off subject i know, thinking about "Hull Down" reminded me of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 The Russians made very extensive use of dug-in T-34s. At Kursk all tanks in the front lines were ordered dug-in after the first day or two due to the carnage the Tigers and Panthers were able to inflict at range. Also they dug in hundreds in and around Stalingrad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 > Also they dug in hundreds in and around > Stalingrad. There never were "hundreds" of T34s available IN Stalingrad, and until the december '42 counteroffensive - around it (unless you count strategic reserves waaaay behind Volga as 'around'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skipper: > Also they dug in hundreds in and around > Stalingrad. There never were "hundreds" of T34s available IN Stalingrad, and until the december '42 counteroffensive - around it (unless you count strategic reserves waaaay behind Volga as 'around').<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I meant around 100-200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 Clinton, Yes, we are going to do something about this. Not sure exactly what, but being able to "undig" a tank is at the very least doable. We might try to actually have a something that can be placed on the map like a bunker for example. Again, not sure what we are going to do but we have the "undig" thing to fall back on. Might be all that is needed in any case Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 Can't you just make a dent in the terrain where you can reverse out and you're in a 100% perfect hull down position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by howardb: Can't you just make a dent in the terrain where you can reverse out and you're in a 100% perfect hull down position?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sure you can, but what if the map is as flat as the Steppes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 Then you're the only one out there Hull Down Sounds pretty good to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by howardb: Then you're the only one out there Hull Down Sounds pretty good to me...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My point is there arent really many places to go hull down in the Steppes. Thats why they had to dig them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted June 12, 2001 Author Share Posted June 12, 2001 Is it possible to creat a new graphics tile for a tank dug-in position? I think that would be a good way to go. Have some sand bags covering the edges and dirt slope coming out the back...If it is raining and wet you better hope you can get out!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clinton: Is it possible to creat a new graphics tile for a tank dug-in position? I think that would be a good way to go. Have some sand bags covering the edges and dirt slope coming out the back...If it is raining and wet you better hope you can get out!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I would like to see one. That way you could set up a MLR with several fall back positions in the event the enemy gets close. Same with foxholes and trenches for really big defensive positions, i.e. Kursk. Or even use them as decoys as the Russians were known to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 Having never seen a dug in tank in CM, what do they look like? Do they look as if they are dug in (a foxhole or something), or is there just something in the unit info to indicate it is dug in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscript Bagger Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 They're buried up to about the tops of their tracks. Like when they bog, only much more noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bog Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 i thought they were buried up to about the middle of their sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscript Bagger Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 The only one I ever dug in was a Panther, maybe shorter tanks are deeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Offwhite: The only one I ever dug in was a Panther, maybe shorter tanks are deeper <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> im working on a scenario right now where there are some dug in german tanks. They are pretty much hull down, up to the top of the tracks. This makes them a little harder to hit, but not as much as you might think. I had a Sherman 76 (or maybe it was an M-18) kill a dug in Jagdpanther with no problem, so digging them in is not all that much of a brilliant defensive countermeasure. And it pretty much eliminates hull hits, so for tanks with weaker turret armor, the digging in means that while fewer shots may hit, the ones that do are more deadly. Soo... All other things being equal, Id rather have a mobile tank that is slightly easier to hit than a glorified dug in gun. not sure if dug in tanks can still use hull mtd mgs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscript Bagger Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Terence: All other things being equal, Id rather have a mobile tank that is slightly easier to hit than a glorified dug in gun.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Agreed; why not buy a gun instead and use the points you saved somewhere else? On the other hand, say you're in a long-range defensive engagement where you're given tanks whose hulls and turrets are both vulnerable to the enemy's guns (M4s or PzIVs for example). In that case, your only protection would be in presenting a smaller target, and at long range, the effect of being dug in should be more pronounced. On the other other hand, why not put them in hull-down positions and use the hunt/reverse ambush method... Digging in still seems like too much of a tradeoff, I guess that's why I've never even tried it in a real scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 I'm not sure I would dig in a Jagdpanther considering it's got no turret but I like the idea of being able to dig in armor. It gives greater flexibility in both multi- and singleplayer. You've bought equipment and later finds out you needed a gun placement in an overwatch position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by howardb: I'm not sure I would dig in a Jagdpanther considering it's got no turret but I like the idea of being able to dig in armor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, that was kind of the point. I love the tradeoffs and compromises that you can explore in CM scenarios. The Jagdpanther is dug in, and yes, has no turret, BUT it does cover a vital road in wet weather from a keyhole sighting position, in a scenario where the allies have to move up the road quickly. The digging in is meant to simulate a broken down tank that was hauled into a defensive position by engineers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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