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GORDON MOLEK'S DESERT MODS POLL: To batch or not to batch.

Maximus
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Maximus Senior Member

Maximus

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OK,

For all of you that have gotten into the DFDR TC mod, how many people use the Mod Manager to switch between different mods? How many would prefer the ol' batch file system?

I ask because Gordon has done UK Desert Rat versions for the Stuart V, Sherman II, Sherman III, Sherman V, and soon to have the Priest. Also in the Beta Testing process are US versions of the M5A1 Stuart, M4A1 Sherman, and M7 Priest.

In my current grubby beta testing hands I have a batch file set for all of the above mentioned mods except the Priest. So is anyone else interested in a batch file version?

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Monty Senior Member

Monty

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Who needs that stuff..

I just copied my BMP folder and threw in all desert files.

When i want to go Afrika, i rename this folder to BMP and default to something else ( 20 seconds work ) and i am ready.

You can make 10 different BMP folders if you want, each with different mods. smile.gif

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Maximus Senior Member

Maximus

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rommel22:

Because of the batch files, I have no mods for allied vehicles whatsoever.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like a personal problem to me. They are really not that hard to setup an use. You said you can do a copy and paste. That's all you have to do with batch files. Copy and paste the batch files into the CMBO root directory instead of the BMP folder. And then you setup shortcuts to the batch files for easy access from your desktop. You do know how to create shortcuts don't you? What's so hard? Changing the icon? That's pretty simple too once you do it once.

Oh I get it, you have a problem with double-clicking on an icon, right? :rolleyes: Or is it that you can't follow the instructions that come with batch file mods? Like I said, sounds like a personal problem to me.

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Maximus Senior Member

Maximus

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Monty:

Who needs that stuff..

I just copied my BMP folder and threw in all desert files.

When i want to go Afrika, i rename this folder to BMP and default to something else ( 20 seconds work ) and i am ready.

You can make 10 different BMP folders if you want, each with different mods. smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OH I never thought of that. I guess it would work, but that's not really what I was suggesting.

You see, Gordon has made American and British versions of some Desert vehicles that share some textures, so a batch file system is kinda needed to switch between these two variants. Besides saves on disk space for just a couple of mods. Kinda silly to create multiple BMP folders to change just one or two mods, don't you think?

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Clubfoot Senior Member

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I'm still baffled by the apparent distaste some have for the ModManager. It's a brilliantly easy to use front end, and all mods can be placed in .zip files and activated with a click. Custom mods of your favorite textures with multiple options available at a click are simple and straightforward to create in a point&click environment. It's earlier foibles have been hashed out with version 1.0g.

Does anyone actually dislike this tool simply because it's too simple.

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Maximus Senior Member

Maximus

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clubfoot:

Does anyone actually dislike this tool simply because it's too simple.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually Clubfoot, you hit it right on the head.

Reminds me back when Windows 95 came out. I thought, GEEZ, this looks like an interface for those that couldn't understand Windows 3.11. In other words, for those that have used DOS, the old manual file copying and what-not is no big deal. But for *new* computer users, I can see why batch files and stuff can be confusing. However, for those of us who understand file management, the Mod Manager is just another way to make an already simple method even simpler. In a way, IMHO, it insults the intelligence of us who *can* file manage.

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Skorpion Member

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus:

...the Mod Manager is just another way to make an already simple method even simpler.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL - I must be stupid then, because when I tried to get the mod manager to do anything it kept insisting upon deleting everything I had installed and replacing it with the twenty or so images I wanted. Result: CM doesn't run.

Personally, I think that the ModManager interface is horrible, to the point that I might program my own when my finals are complete. That's not to say it isn't a good program, because it is, just that I don't think it's as easy to use as it could be.

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TwoSheds Senior Member

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People still don't get that it was a "Mod Manager" not a "Mod Installer". You use it to manage the Mod configuration you want CM to use as a whole, not to install one friggin Mod at a time.

For those that want to spend more time playing CM than twiddling CM I offered the Mod Manager. It appears though the twiddlers win. Long live batch files...

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Clubfoot Senior Member

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Maximus, I guess all I can say is it's a damn good thing that Whitney, Ford, Guttenberg and the caveman who invented the wheel didn't buy into the "simpler is worse" axiom.

quote:"Sounds like a personal problem to me. They are really not that hard to setup an use. You said you can do a copy and paste. That's all you have to do with batch files. Copy and paste the batch files into the CMBO root directory instead of the BMP folder. And then you setup shortcuts to the batch files for easy access from your desktop. You do know how to create shortcuts don't you? What's so hard? Changing the icon? That's pretty simple too once you do it once.

Oh I get it, you have a problem with double-clicking on an icon, right? Or is it that you can't follow the instructions that come with batch file mods? Like I said, sounds like a personal problem to me."

So you're arguing for the simplicity of batch files but condemning the simplicity of ModManager? In quite a rude fashion I might add. hmmmmm. seems silly.

quote:"You see, Gordon has made American and British versions of some Desert vehicles that share some textures, so a batch file system is kinda needed to switch between these two variants. Besides saves on disk space for just a couple of mods. Kinda silly to create multiple BMP folders to change just one or two mods, don't you think?"

Yes. That's why I suggest ModManager and it's simple and functional "extras" and "options" features that would solve these problems for you and clean your desktop of that cadre of batch icons.

Skorpion, the only real problems I've seen anyone have with the ModManager after v1.0g is due to inattention to the docs included with it.

TwoSheds, take heart my friend. This small sampling of posts is not indicative of the general response I've recieved about the ModManager. In the last 3 weeks it's been downloaded more than 90 times from the DFDR site, and gets an average of 5 retrievals a day.

[ 04-14-2001: Message edited by: Clubfoot ]

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Skorpion Member

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clubfoot:

Skorpion, the only real problems I've seen anyone have with the ModManager after v1.0g is due to inattention to the docs included with it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course, you're right. I jumped straight in thinking that it would enable me to unzip about twenty mods into the folder without reading the docs at all. The problem was entirely my fault, and I can see that the ModManager woulld be useful in situations like DFDR or if you wanted to change all the vehicles from polish to british or whatever regularly.

What I'd like to see is the ability to test a mod by installing it, and then allowing you to uninstall it if you didn't like it. Not sure about the feasibility of it though.

Anyway, I'm sorry if Twosheds got the wrong idea. I wasn't trying to bash his work, just pointing out that idiots like me do exist and perhaps there should be a bigger warning or something.

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TwoSheds Senior Member

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> What I'd like to see is the ability to test a mod by installing it, and then allowing you to uninstall it if you didn't like it. Not sure about the feasibility of it though <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's exactly what the Mod Manager does. Once the Mod is in the Mods folder, start up Mod Manager, move the new Mod up down in the list (prioritize) as you see fit, check it's box (DON'T uncheck others) and click Install. Play CM. If you don't like the Mod uncheck it and Install again.

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Maximus Senior Member

Maximus

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rommel22:

Maximus,

Yeah, I don't know how to do that please tell me. How do I create a short-cut.

Where is the desktop??? Is that in the CM directory?

Please help me!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you're serious, then OK.

Creating a Shortcut is very easy. In this case, click on the batch file. Then right-click. From the pop-up menu, select...watch out, don't look! Create Shortcut

The Desktop is the what Windows opens up to. The one that has all of your program icons on it, such as "My Computer" and "Recycle Bin". So for ease of use, you want to drag a Shortcut to your Desktop so you can click on it easily. What I have done is to create a Combat Mission Folder on the Desktop and I have put the Cmbo.exe shortcut there along with all of the mod shortcuts.

To TwoShed and Clubfoot, I'm sorry if I came off too harsh. I'm not putting down the Mod Manager, it's just that as a 10+ year experienced computer user, I have no problem with regular file management. I started with IBM-PC's in the days of DOS 5.0 and started regular computer use back in the days of Apple IIe's so I'm used to tinkering with files such as autoexec.bat and config.sys, so I am fully comfortable with manual copying and what-not.

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TwoSheds Senior Member

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> it's just that as a 10+ year experienced computer user, I have no problem with regular file management. I started with IBM-PC's in the days of DOS 5.0 and started regular computer use back in the days of Apple IIe's so I'm used to tinkering with files such as autoexec.bat and config.sys, so I am fully comfortable with manual copying and what-not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You assume everyone should have that level of comfort with "manual copying and what-not"?

I want people to know that they don't have to worry about 500+ BMP files and 50 batch files, but I've been completely overshadowed by the LOUD POSTS of critisism by the elite Windows Users.

For every 1 negative post about the Mod Manager it will take 10 positive posts to convince a guy on the fence about using it.

OK, I'm done here.

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Agua Senior Member

Agua

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clubfoot:

<snip>

Does anyone actually dislike this tool simply because it's too simple.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I rigged the thing up for DFDR and it worked so well that I decided to use it for CMBO. I'm sure it is just me, but I had a nightmare with it in CMBO. It worked fine for several days until I attempted to install dd's infantry mod. When I did, something happened that wiped out every mod I had so I had to go back and reinstall, trying to figure out "let's see..was it Rich's hedge and DD's add-on water & wheat or was it Tiger's rough & brush, DD's Water & Rich'e wall."

It was likely something that I did wrong, but I have no idea what it was and I'm not going to risk going through that again. I still use it with DFDR though(separate game installation for DFDR).

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Gordon Senior Member

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Hello all,

Well, maybe I'll wish I hadn't stumbled onto this discussion, as I see Maximus has been his normal diplomatic self. smile.gif

Ok, here's the scoop, from my humble perspective. ;)

I like both the batch file system and CM Mod Manager. I think that both take a fair amount of effort to "get set up" properly, but that once set up both are very useful and have their strengths and weaknesses.

Let me just say that I've worked closely with Marco on refining the BFS (Batch File System) and also provided a lot of feedback to TwoSheds during development of CMMM (CM Mod Manager). So, what are some of these strengths and weaknesses?

CMMM - very easy to "browse" mods and prioritize them (e.g. install this set of buildings, but after that I prefer this other heavy building, so install just it). Swapping between 2 sets of similar mods. I use it basic mod installation, and for swapping between my Black/Olive Drab and Field Drab/Olive Drab camo vehicles as my mood changes (in conjunction with the batch file system).

BFS - Easier to make changes involving more than one mod. For instance, changing all my vehicles to represent Canadian forces is a single click on a short-cut, rather than several installation actions within CMMM. Given the likely-hood that (at least for the near future), mod "families" such as Polish vehicles will be spread over multiple "mods", this is, IMO, a bigger plus than it seems at first glance.

However, all that said, I use both and enjoy both.

This whole discussion came about because I originally planned on only providing CMMM versions of my DFDR mods. My reasons for this are that I figured that most players would probably be using CMMM for a "new" installation like DFDR, and the more simplified nature of the mod environment for DFDR. Also, a non-CMMM user playing DFDR has the option of simply un-zipping the CMMM mods by hand, which is a little easier than unzipping a BFS mod and renaming all the files.

So, to sum up after an overly long post, my intention is to not offer BFS versions of my various DFDR mods (to date:

Desert Rats Sherman Mk II, Sherman Mk III and Stuart V,

Desert Rats Stuart Kangaroo

North African M4A1 and M5A1 (coming soon)

Desert Rats and North African M7 Priest (coming later).

That is, unless I hear of a groundswell of support for BFS in DFDR. tongue.gif Also, bear in mind, that working on too many variations of a given mod takes time away from working on new mods. :D

Gordon

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