kump Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 I've been gone from here for quite a long time. I've finished my projects and returned to the greatest game ever. For those who remember me, howdy! I'm back. I remember the debates on GeForce2 and Voodoo5. As an old bygone owner of Voodoo5, 4xAnti-Aliasing was remarkable for CM. Wasn't good enough to show with still screen shots, but it made distant objects sharp, no swimming of textures, remarkable. Then the debates of GeForce2 vs Voodoo5 and anti-aliasing began. Oh my. A long time has passed and I bought a new system. It is 1.33 MHz and has a 3D Prophet III GeForce3. I've had this system for a few months and I like the GeForce3 and its performance. This card rocks in action games. Very impressive. Or so I thought... But let me make one thing clear. The Anti-Aliasing of this card fall short. Yes, it improves the image, but even at 4xAnti-Aliasing, I was not impressed. Obviously, NVidia and 3dfx approached it differently. The NVidia 4xAnti-Aliasing, though improved, still caused textures to swim. The 3D edges were sharper, but the textures swam all over the place, especially at distance. Installing CMBO on my new machine and getting ready to rumble, I was not at all prepared or happy at the GeForce3 results. So I went and installed my old Voodoo5 card and man, what a difference. I laugh now at the debates on Voodoo5 vs GeForce2. That was no comparison. As a GeForce3 owner, I can say that its beyond dispute. Now that NVidia owns 3dfx technology, I certainly hope to see something learned in NVidia's future products. The textures need to be anti-aliased also, not just the 3D models. I'm looking forward to better support of this important feature from NVidia in the future. I want that high end big memory video card, but I want the AA that Voodoo5 delivers. I'm telling you, it transforms CM to a different dimension. Now back to CMBO, and I'll keep the Voodoo5 installed and hope the new 1.33 MHz system with 256 Meg memory will allow CM to run smooth even through the large battles. If it don't, tough. I cannot play CM with the graphics downgrade GeForce3 offers. Oh yea, I'll keep my GeForce3. It rocks with action games where things are big and close. But for CM, no way. PS: If you play Star Fleet Command, the 4xAnti-Alias on textures is also very obvious. GeForce3 textures (lighted windows) swim all over the place and is again, disappointing. Okay, video testimony over. Oh, and CMBO is just as much a blast as it was months ago. Beautiful game. I'm glad I'm back into it. [ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: kump ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 Welcome back. So, you are saying not to bother upgrading to a GeForce 3 if all I really play is CM? Damn, what am I going to do with all that cash I saved up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubbies Phan Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 Out of curiosity, what exactly do you mean that textures swim? I have a 64MB Geforce2 GTS and the only problems I see with graphics are is that open-toped vehicles like halftracks and vehicles like Hummels and Marders have problems. Like the textures around the outside edge that cover the open-air part of the vehicle turn into verticle or diagonal sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted September 29, 2001 Author Share Posted September 29, 2001 Hi Pvt. Ryan ! No, I think the GeForce3 card is still an excellent card and worth the money. But for CM, there is something better. Cubbies Phan, How can I explain? If its something you are used to, you probably wouldn't notice. But having 3dfx 4xAA, it was something I quickly and easily noticed when I went to GeForce3. What I mean by texture swim is that it doesn't look like AA is being applied to textures, only to the 3D edges. I could be wrong. Really noticed on CM city cobbled streets and other things. Obvious in SFC as well. I do believe the GeForce2 AA is done the same way as the GeForce3. Now you can debate it and say you don't agree. But as an owner of both the NVidia card and 3dfx card, I have a side by side comparison. I actually still have my old system and I've connected it to my new system by ethernet as a backup net drive and other things. I have a switch box that allows me to share my 21 inch monitor and keyboard between the two systems. One system has GeForce3 card and the other has the Voodoo5. I run CM on both and switch between the two. No comparison for AA. Now, I like the color of GeForce3 better, the Voodoo5 seems a little duller. But I like the subdued graphics of CM, so this is not an issue. Performance? The GeForce3 wins. I won't give up my GeForce3 card and don't wish to sell it. But I now have experienced the AA of both these video technologies and I can tell you, the NVidia technology falls short on the Anti-Aliasing implementation. In all else, its a fantastic card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eba Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 I also switched back from a GeForce 3 to my Voodoo 5500 because CMBO just looks better on the Voodoo card. The GeForce image seems to shimmer or sparkle here and there, while the Voodoo image is very smooth all around. There really is a clear difference, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 Yeah, I have a Nvidia GeForce 2 MX and I get those "flashing polygons" too. There was a post in the tech forum awhile ago that said you need to mess with the voltage or something and that would clear it up. I was too lazy to do this though and I don't mind the problem too much. Here's some news though if you haven't alredy heard: ATI is coming out with a video card called RAdeon 8500 that is supposed to blow away the GeForce 3. In addition to faster speeds and more/better textures, it will also utilize FSAA which is the anti-aliasing effect. Now I just gotta save up that $400 to buy it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 Good to see you back, Kump. I'm planning to buy a new computer in a couple of months and have been thinking about this issus. I now have a Voodoo 5500 and I too like the 4xAA effects, although it stutters on large scenarios. So I had to turn it down to 2xAA. Your experience is interesting, but I still don't know what to do since I want to play IL Sturmovik when it comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubbies Phan Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kump: Cubbies Phan, How can I explain? If its something you are used to, you probably wouldn't notice. But having 3dfx 4xAA, it was something I quickly and easily noticed when I went to GeForce3. What I mean by texture swim is that it doesn't look like AA is being applied to textures, only to the 3D edges. I could be wrong. Really noticed on CM city cobbled streets and other things. Obvious in SFC as well. I do believe the GeForce2 AA is done the same way as the GeForce3. Now you can debate it and say you don't agree. But as an owner of both the NVidia card and 3dfx card, I have a side by side comparison.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> OK, difference noted. But I was just under the assumption that bad textures were just that. Bad textures. I mean really though, how does FSAA "smooth out" as you say bitmapped images? It would seem to me that it would blur the pixels together a bit because doesn't FSAA in effect CRT scan the screen multiple times for one frame of animation? Actually maybe that's why the paint jobs on some mods look better out of game than they do in-game. Becuase in-game, they become a little blocky, if you know what I mean where they look much clearer in say like a paint program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cubbies Phan: I have a 64MB Geforce2 GTS and the only problems I see with graphics are is that open-toped vehicles like halftracks and vehicles like Hummels and Marders have problems. Like the textures around the outside edge that cover the open-air part of the vehicle turn into verticle or diagonal sections.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have the same card and have the same problem, but only when I zoom in on the vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kverdon Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 I have a V5 5500 on my desktop and love it. CM looks fantastic. I have the Geforce2go chipset on my laptop and, well, there is no comparison, CMBO look much better on the V5 5500. At least I can play CMBO on the laptop so that is def. a plus. What this means however is that I definately will not be moving to Windows XP until something comes along to make me want to replace my V5 5500. NVIDIA cut a deal with Microsoft and support for V5's and all 3dfx cards was dropped in the release candiate for Windows XP. NVIDIA refused to give MS the source code for the drivers and requested that MS not support 3dfx cards in XP. V5's worked in XP up to the last revision and then suddenly they no longer worked. Well you can get 2d video with a V5 in XP but not Direct 3d or Glide. Looks MS just lost some $$$ from me. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 Yep, Kump is right. V5 FSAA just looks better than Geforce in CM for whatever reason. The price you pay is performance. If CM was all I played I would go with the V5. Since I like to play racing games I want the performance of Geforce. Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascal DI FOLCO Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 How much costs a Voodoo5500 ? Is there a good older/cheaper Voodoo model ? I'm fed up of my crappy ATI Rage, not only there's no fog but it's also not fast enough with medium+ scenarios with all hires mods ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 Hi Kump, good to hear from you again... So when are we going to see some brand new textures off your good self?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGMB Posted September 30, 2001 Share Posted September 30, 2001 Sir, Wow..... Gary returns! Thats worth comming out of Lurker ridge for! Welcome back Gary! *Returing to Lurker Mode* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted September 30, 2001 Author Share Posted September 30, 2001 Hey, there sure are a lot of you still loitering about here. Its nice to see the interest in this fantastic game continues to burn. Anyone find anything to replace it yet? (besides the coming CMBB) Lurker ridge? LOL. Glad your still lurking about Lord General MB Well, time to fall into the world of CM once again. The games are backed up and what an amazing number of scenarios on the net to choose from. The fan base for this game is just outstanding. For all you scenario authors, thanks. Really looking forward to CMBB though, being my favorite front and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx Posted September 30, 2001 Share Posted September 30, 2001 Welcome back Kump. Any chance of you resurrecting the CM OUTPOST? It's died a slow and painful death and doesn't seem to be updated any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted September 30, 2001 Author Share Posted September 30, 2001 Hi Manx, Hey, the COMBAT MISSION site is looking outstanding. Great to see your site still going. Excellent job. As for CM Outpost. Your right, I noticed it has been dormant. I've been giving it some thought. I've lost my web share space last month. However, I am getting ADSL installed in two weeks which will make life easier, so it could be something I may want to start up again. Let me play with CM for awhile, get the ADSL, and explore options for web space. Who knows, CM Outpost may move again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishu Posted September 30, 2001 Share Posted September 30, 2001 I have Radeon and it works pretty well with 4x FSAA. Many times more FPS than I had with TNT2 and it seems to even improve image quality. Probably has texture FSAA as textures got better looking. Radeon FSAA CM comparison screenshots (Notice register plate number image quality difference - much easier to read with FSAA enabled) [ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: Fishu ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eba Posted October 1, 2001 Share Posted October 1, 2001 The problem with the Radeon (or any other current ATI card) is that they don't support fog in CM. And that's a big minus in my book. Does anyone know if ATI's next generation cards will support fog in CM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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