150mm Inf Gun an Uber Weapon?

[Lord Dreaman]

seems to me if you look at the blast value for this uberweapon it's twice the amount of any other weapon in the game and I'm wondering why is that? This weapon is so powerful that three of them caused over 150 casulties against the computer. In fact I won tbat QB with a total victory with only 22 casulties and the computer had 196 casulties. Talk about destructive power.

[The Commissar]

Lord Dreaman,

Since you are basing your argument on a battle against the computer AI, it isnt a very solid argument

The AI, although being able to perform simple actions reasonably well, is not really experienced at anything overly complex. Taking out an infatry gun would be considered "complex", since you have to do with caution and good timing, something the computer often lacks.

Basically, most players would do one of severl things to destroy your gun(s):

1) Arty its position with HE shells.

2) Smoke its position with Arty, and rush it with infantry.

3) Sneak up a tank/SP gun and blow the gun crew to smithereens.

4) Any combination of the above.

There are truly no "uber-weapons" in CM. You just have to try a bit harder to destroy some rather then others. An all out rush against most any AP Gun will cost the lives of many men.

Cheers!

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"...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

[Juardis]

Originally posted by The Commissar:

1) Arty its position with HE shells.

2) Smoke its position with Arty, and rush it with infantry.

3) Sneak up a tank/SP gun and blow the gun crew to smithereens.

4) Any combination of the above.

And 5) Direct fire HE from any on board gun or tank. VERY effective, especially a StuH42 or Stug III. I lost a 105mm Inf gun to a HE shell from a JadgPanzer IV. Talk about ticked :/

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Jeff Abbott

[This message has been edited by Juardis (edited 02-03-2001).]

[Guest Germanboy]

It has a ROF of about three rounds/turn. That hardly qualifies as Uber. It is also very w=vulnerable (as has been pointed out) and easily spotted, because it is very large.

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Andreas

Der Kessel

Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission.

[CrapGame]

LD,

I am also amazed at the damage that a perfectly placed 150mm infantry gun can do. The first battle that the computer gave me one in a qb, it took out over 200 british infantry men versus 1 crew member before the brits surrendered. I know it had to be the IG causing all the casualties, as the volksgrenadiers accounted for only 30 of the 250+ casualties caused. I stress the "perfectly placed" part, however, as the 150mm IG can get taken out by schoolchildren throwing spitballs if the placement is less than ideal. Therefore, I agree with Andreas, and do not believe it is deserving of the "uber-weapon" moniker.

[Dschugaschwili]

I think you're lucky if you can get your IG to fire more than a handful of rounds. I don't know of any other weapon that's a stronger arty magnet than the 150mm IG. It usually doesn't last long once spotted.

Dschugaschwili

[Guest Warphead-]

Talking about too much damage of the 150mm Inf Gun. How about explosions with seven times more punch out of the same gun?

Have a look here: http://www.nahverteidigungswaffe.de/GermanTanks/sIG33(150)-01.htm

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http://www.nahverteidigungswaffe.de

"Haben die Krupp-Werke Betriebsausflug? Da rollt ja halb Deutschland auf mich zu..." (Vincent)]

[Skipper]

The notion that 150mm guns was VERY effective against infantry is correct (and 120 mm mortars - even more so). After all, over half of the KIA in WWII were killed by HE shrapnel.

That was the reason they put (relatively) short 120 mm gun on IS-2, when the alternative was a long 100 mm gun - because army customers wanted to trade off AT capability for the HE punch.

Speaking of IS-2, I wonder if Eastern Front is in the plans. I could probably help Battlefront to get in touch with some russian guys who know the old hardware. Kubinka Armor Museum, anyone?

[SS_PanzerLeader]

This is far from an "Uber" weapon, as it is as vulnerable as any gun under fire. Basically a gun is only as good as the opponent who utilizes it. With that in mind can 150mm gun be a formidable advisary?... damn straight BUT it must be placed well and timing is critical. If a player thinks that this weapon will control the game he is reliant on one or more of several factors and probably deluding himself. For the gun to reign supreme this situation must occur:

1. Alot of Luck

2. The gun is in awesome position with total LOS

3. The gun is heavily supported if challenged with direct fire

4. That enemy Arty is blind

5. The gun is protected from an infantry assault

6. The player really knows how to use the weapon

The more likely optimal condition :

1. The gun is in a good loc with limited but HIGHLY effective LOS

2. The gun's position is revealed only in necessity...

3. the gun is unchallenged when utilized

4. the gun is protected

I have found the 150mm to be an effective weapon when conditions are right, as with any gun. But rather than get them wasted I would rather not use it at all especially if I cant bring it to bear successfully .

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SS_PanzerLeader.......out

[Stefan Wennerberg]

Originally posted by Lord Dreaman:

seems to me if you look at the blast value for this uberweapon it's twice the amount of any other weapon in the game and I'm wondering why is that? This weapon is so powerful that three of them caused over 150 casulties against the computer. In fact I won tbat QB with a total victory with only 22 casulties and the computer had 196 casulties. Talk about destructive power.

Given the scale of CM and that the 150 is primarly an indirect fire weapon, I'd say it's prob. unrealistic to typically purch. them for Quick Battles.

Stefan

[Peter White]

Uber weapon? If you have good LOS on a wide kill zone is certainly very useful.

At least in Valley of Trouble, it is easy to panic the crew with a little aritillery fire. And if you are clever, just one mortar team will do the same job; with a higher ROF, a single lucky mortar round will suppress the IG crew sufficiently to decide duel.

[SS_PanzerLeader]

"Given the scale of CM and that the 150 is primarly an indirect fire weapon, I'd say it's prob. unrealistic to typically purch. them for Quick Battles."

QB's are unrealistic anyhow But they are the most fun to play and the best gauge of of skill on a competitive level

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SS_PanzerLeader.......out

[Jarmo]

Originally posted by Warphead-:

Talking about too much damage of the 150mm Inf Gun. How about explosions with seven times more punch out of the same gun?

Oooohhhh! I'm in love!

I want that in CM2!

I assume the ROF would suck quite a bit.

[gaffertape]

SKIPPER: Now that CMBO is just about perfect, the lads at BTS have begun work on CM2. It *is* the Eastern Front, and it covers 1941 to 1945. We are all looking forward to it.

GAFF

[Vanir]

Originally posted by Stefan Wennerberg:

Given the scale of CM and that the 150 is primarly an indirect fire weapon, I'd say it's prob. unrealistic to typically purch. them for Quick Battles.

No, the 150mm Infantry gun is not the same as the 150mm gun used for indirect fire. The muzzel velocity is only 270 meters per second which is too low to have enough range for indirect fire. It was meant to be fired direct. That's why they called it an infantry gun.

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You've never heard music until you've heard the bleating of a gut-shot cesspooler. -Mark IV

[Lee]

The 150mm infantry gun is certainly a fearsome weapon when in good position and properly

protected. It's the sort of weapon that get's lots of enemy attention when it starts blasting

them, so expect a strong response. But you have to love the sheer destruction that it can

let loose.

Warphead: We *must* have that cool special ammunition available for the 150mm gun

in CM2. Seven times the blast of standard 150mm... OUCH!

[This message has been edited by Lee (edited 02-07-2001).]

[Skipper]

Originally posted by gaffertape:

SKIPPER: Now that CMBO is just about perfect, the lads at BTS have begun work on CM2. It *is* the Eastern Front

Figured that out yesterday. Together with upcoming IL-2 flight sim, that's a dream come true. Looks like (knock-knock) I am on a streak of unusually good luck for the last week

[Fenris]

I'm looking forward to the self propelled versions....

Roll one up to the end of an avenue and start demolishing.

[Jarmo]

Originally posted by Fenris:

I'm looking forward to the self propelled versions....

U mean Hummel?

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by Jarmo:

U mean Hummel?

I guess not. The hummel had a longer 15cm howitzer. The sIG33 was mounted on GW I/II/38(t). (One of these were nicknamed Bison, but I can't remember whitch.)

GW = GeschützWagen, and the number indicates which tank chassis it used. GWs were used for the regimental arty in armoured PzGrenadier regiments.

Cheers

Olle

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Webmaster of Combat Mission för svensktalande, a CM site in Swedish. Norwegians, Finns, Danes and Icelanders are also welcome as members, others can still enjoy pictures and downloads.

Strategy is the art of avoiding a fair fight...

Detta har kånntrollerats av Majkråsofft späll-tjäcker.

[Fenris]

No, I do mean the SP IG's...

Taken from the Achtung Panzer! website... http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzer.htm

"Sturmpanzer I Bison (Sd.Kfz.101)

(15cm sIG33(Sf) auf Panzerkampfwagen I Ausf

150mm sIG 33 L/11.4 heavy infantry gun (mortar) carrier operated by the crew of four was built on the chassis of PzKpfw I Ausf B. Crew was protected only by large box-shaped gun shield (made up of three 10mm plates), open at the top and rear. Only 38 were converted in January/February of 1940 by Alkett in Berlin. The gun and superstructure overloaded the chassis leading to poor mobility. The idea behind this vehicle was to provide infantry with direct and mobile fire support unit. Sturmpanzer I saw service in the West, Balkans and Russia with 701-706 sIG(Sf) Kompanien - Heavy Infantry Gun Companies (each had 6 vehicles), originally attached to Panzer Divisions and then Panzer Corps. Last of them were taken out from service (with 704 Company of 5th Panzer Division) in late 1943. It was the first of many self-propelled support vehicles produced during the war."

[Mattias]

Yea, what Olle said,

Russia saw sIG's mounted on Pz I/III and 38(t) chassis. Most of them in the different "Grille" (PzKw 38) configurations.

There were a few sIG 33 mounted on the Pz II chassis but none of them seems to have reached the east.

M.