When did WWII become WWII?

[Gyrene]

WWI used to be called The Great War, and for obvious reasons the number one didn't get applied to it until after 1940 or so, but my question is when did the name "World War II" start being used? If I'm correct, the term "War in Europe" was more common, at least before the beggining of 1942 and the war on the Pacific.

Probably a silly question, but does anyone know who come up with the WW name and when? Was WWII ever called that while it was going on?

Gyrene

[Michael Emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gyrene:

Probably a silly question, but does anyone know who come up with the WW name and when? Was WWII ever called that while it was going on?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting question. I wish I had a good answer. I'm pretty sure that the term came into usage during the war, but I can't give you a specific date. I have this notion that it took hold sometime in the middle or second half of 1940, but I have no hard evidence for that supposition.

If this is a question that really is bugging you, you might try looking through the online archives of the London or New York Times (if they go back that far) and see when they start using it.

Michael

[kmead]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> WWI used to be called The Great War, and for obvious reasons the number one didn't get applied to it until after 1940 or so, but my question is when did the name "World War II" start being used? If I'm correct, the term "War in Europe" was more common, at least before the beggining of 1942 and the war on the Pacific. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This may have been true in the self centered US, but the British and Dutch had been fighting the Japanese for a bit before we became engaged. The Chinese and Manchurians also had been defending their homelands all the way back to 1937 (IIRC).

I suspect the WW2 tagline gained US prominence after we were dragged into the war. It was easier to propagandize a World War I suspect.

Probably a silly question, but does anyone know who come up with the WW name and when? Was WWII ever called that while it was going on?

There is a really interesting multibook set out right now (you can find it on the bargain tables at alot of bookstores) that shows war through newspaper stories and poptographs. I believe there are 10or 11 volumes.

[ 04-07-2001: Message edited by: kmead ]

[ 04-07-2001: Message edited by: kmead ]

[lcm1947]

I also can't answer your question but I'll add something. Wasn't WWII also called " The war to end all wars"?

[Michael Emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lcm1947:

I also can't answer your question but I'll add something. Wasn't WWII also called " The war to end all wars"? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. That was The Great War, aka WW I.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kmead:

This may have been true in the self centered US, but the British and Dutch had been fighting the Japanese for a bit before we became engaged.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And when might that have been?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The Chinese and Manchurians also had been defending their homelands all the way back to 1937 (IIRC).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually earlier than that. The Japanese began fighting the Chinese as early as 1930-31 and moved into Manchria earlier, though I don't recall that date.

Michael

[ 04-07-2001: Message edited by: Michael emrys ]

[kmead]

Michael emrys responded to my post:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

Originally posted by kmead:

This may have been true in the self centered US, but the British and Dutch had been fighting the Japanese for a bit before we became engaged.

And when might that have been?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I apologize if I am incorrect (which is quite likely since I am recalling info from my childhood and have neglected to refresh or add much WW2 knowledge since then), but as I recall were they not fighting over Java (a Dutch colony) and Singapore prior to Pearl?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

The Chinese and Manchurians also had been defending their homelands all the way back to 1937 (IIRC).

[mrspkr2]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kmead:

This may have been true in the self centered US, but the British and Dutch had been fighting the Japanese for a bit before we became engaged.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Umm . . . the Japanese attacked British, Dutch, French and American positions throughout the Pacific at approximately the same time. The English lost Singapore in early 1942.

mrspkr2

[Panzer Leader]

I have heard radio and film broadcasts from the time period that refer to both wars as "world wars". I remember a film broadcast that started something like "a world at war..." so I would guess that they (english speakers) called it that since the beginning.

I also know of many broadcasts referring to WWII as "the good war" but I've never heard it (even today) reffered to as "the great war" by anyone of consequence.

Good war and Great war actually make a lot of since, since the 1st WW was the biggest conflagration known to modern man (though it pales in comparison to 2nd WW) and Good War, because of the idea of Good vs. Evil. I don't want to get into an argument about the morality of either of these names, but that is my understanding of how and why they came to pass.

There are recordingss by both Churchill and Roosevelt using the term "Good war" while Stalin calls it the "Great Patriotic War."

[Stalin's Organ]

I suggest that WW2 began on 3 Sept 1939, when New Zealand declared war on Germany.

The two countries being almost diametrically opposite each other on the globe, the war spanned the world right from the beginning!!

[Gyrene]

A search of the web was very productive on this matter. I might take a trip to the local library and dig thru back issues of Life magazine to see when the term started being used.

In retrospect, its sad that we've had enough World Wars to start tracking them by numbers.

Gyrene

[Bullethead]

I think WW2 only became WW2 when folks forgot that the Seven Years War (aka the French and Indian War over here) was actually WW1

[FnlWeb]

I have heard it said that there was only

one world war.

Began in 1914 with the assasination of the

Arch Duke and ended in 1991 with the fall of

the Soviet Union.

[Vanir Ausf B]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bullethead:

I think WW2 only became WW2 when folks forgot that the Seven Years War (aka the French and Indian War over here) was actually WW1 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent point, and one I would agree with. It could also be argued that the Napoleanic Wars were actually WW2. The only problem there is that they were a series of several wars with brief pauses in between instead of one long continous war, but that's a small technicality. For all intents and purposes, it was a World War.

Does anyone think the 30 Year War would count as a world war? I would guess not, but I don't know enough about it to say for sure.

[ 04-08-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ]

[anjin]

IIRC the term "Second World War" (or "World War II" - I don't remember which) was the winner in a competition to choose a name for the conflict. I'm not sure when this was, but the term "Second World War" was in use by 1947 at the latest.

BTW, World War I was also known as the "Great World War" as early as January 1915, less than six months after the war started.

[CombinedArms]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrspkr2:

Umm . . . the Japanese attacked British, Dutch, French and American positions throughout the Pacific at approximately the same time. The English lost Singapore in early 1942.

mrspkr2<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure when the term WWII was first used, but as mrspkr2 implies, it wouldn't have been really descriptive until after Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor and it's almost simultaneous attacks on various Asian and Pacific colonies of the European powers. Before that you had a European war involving Germany, Italy etc. against other European powers and a separate, long-protracted war of conquest with Japan invading China, etc. The Japanese attacks brought the US into the war against both Japan and Germany and Britain, the Dutch, et al into war against Japan. At the point, the war became truly global and my guess--I don't have evidence for it as yet-- would be that the term World War II started to be used pretty shortly thereafter. Before that you really had two different wars: a European War and an Asian War, but not quite a World War.

BTW, WWII was much more comprehensively global than WWI. Hardly a corner of the earth was spared from it's impact.

[Sgt. Steiner]

FYI, it could not be truly said to be a world war until 10 December 1941. After

the Japanese attack of 7 December,

President Roosevelt only asked for a

declaration of war against Japan. So at

that point you had 2 separate wars going

on, one in Europe, and one in the Pacific.

For 3 days after Pearl Harbor, Hitler studied his options, and finally decided he

was bound to uphold his end of the pact with Japan (although the Japanese had no such intentions of honoring their end had the Germans attacked the US first). So with the German declaration of war on 10 Dec, it finally could be considered WW2 (still not sure exactly when everyone started calling

it that)..

[Madmatt]

Another topic that is in the wrong spot. I will move it over into the General Forum.

Madmatt