George MC Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 I was looking to put together an Eastern Front operation for CMBB. I've a few ideas regarding setting/forces/date etc (verging on 43 - 44 possibly covering some German counterattacks against assaulting Soviet units). I was curious as to what players look for in a good op e.g. number of battles, length of turns, size of force etc. What is the general feel out there? Do many people playe operations (looking at the number in the Scenario Depot it does appear as if most people prefer to play battle type scenarios rather than OPs)? Cheers fur any feedback! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 An operation which I enjoyed head-to-head was Gebirgsjäger Pack scenario 1. It's a small 3-battle operation, and because I only had a coupla companies, it was quick to play. Right now I'm playing an operation of very different size, and while I enjoy it, I have doubts over my capability of actually completing all the 20 battles in it! My preferences would be, then: - two companies to a battalion - two to four battles, 20 to 40 turns each (preferably the shorter the battles the more there are of them) - a map that allows for some roaming but not so large that players can't maintain a front - mostly infantry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Look at the PanzerBlitz Situations 1-12 at the Scenario Dept. A number of those deal with this specific scenario. Take a look, it might give you some ideas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_no_one Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 If I may,I would suggest focusing on PBEM playability.I know this is just a personal preference,but I just dont like operations versus the AI after the first battle is complete.This isnt always the case,as there are some out there that are very good all the way through,but there are some that arent. I do however,love playing operations PBEM.You should try to make them as balanced as possible while still focusing on realism to represent the actual struggles that you are trying to portray.It would also be a wise idea to make sure there are enough turns per battle.IMHO,too many turns would be better than too few. Operations against the AI might should be the other way around,especially when attacking the AI.If the player is having to push too hard all the time to try and advance,it should help make up for some of the AIs shortcomings,but will leave the player with an uneasy sense of urgency that may not be too fun,atleast not in the short term. I personally prefer larger scale engagements,but can understand why alot of people dont like them.It isnt always possible to devote a few hours a day issuing turns,or even worse,doing a lengthy setup.The reward for me,is that on large/huge maps,more tactics are required,and flanking/envelopment maneuvers are more realistic,and often times,more rewarding when done right. I guess total number of battles should be dependant on the number of turns in each battle.Low number of turns per battle might should equal higher number of battles,and vice versa.But then again,it also depends on the number of units involved per side. Hope some of this helped,and coming from someone who doesnt have CMAK yet,I thank you for continuing work in CMBB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted March 26, 2004 Author Share Posted March 26, 2004 Thanks for the comments so far. They're all very useful. keep them coming in! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucero1148 Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 I personally like short 2 or 3 battle operations since they are much easier to compete as a PBEM. A good op though has all the qualities that the others above mentioned especially when it comes to testing ones tactical ability. Usually a good map with diverse or even subtle terrain features can provide multiple tactical solutions when combined with the force selection. For example the use of on board and FO artillery in the op may be the crucial aspect in defeating a offense/defense. Likewise with the units you're given to maneuver with. Do you attack with speed or go slow with the turns given each battle. I have an interesting operation at the Scenario Depot "Winter Sword" that covers these aspects. It's playable against the AI. Most challenging as the German vs the AI but as the Russian defender against the AI its also a tough fight. All best Patick 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 most memorable op let me zoom across the map. then with my tanks hull down along a ridge, the enemy reinforcements came on a road to my rear. before i could turn the turrets, thay were all destroyed. my fo was shot down too. taught me to watch my back and dont commit everything to the front. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucero1148 Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 Junk2drive Hey that sounds like a nice op. Do you remember what operation that was? All best Patrick 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucero1148 Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 Junk2drive Hey that sounds like a nice op. Do you remember what operation that was? All best Patrick 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 it was CMBB. i was russian against german a.i. possible SPOILER . . . . . . . . . dont remember the name but it was late war, russians moving uphill against retreating germans. very good op. i will look tomorrow and see if i can remember the name. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted March 28, 2004 Author Share Posted March 28, 2004 Excellent stuff guys! Just started designing the map - and doing some back ground research. Further comments still very useful though. Cheers fur noo George Mc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 Ops are long battles with supplies and a strange algorithm to decide the frontline. Supplies are good, the algorithm ain't. A 10 battles with 20+ turns each op and limited supplies is usually worse than a 5 battles at 40+ turns (or 6/33+) with average supplies. So I prefer longer battles. 30+ turns per battle allow for decent combat. Supplies might run low if you are trigger-happy, but you need to plan accordingly. Plus you are allowed some scouting/probing before committing your forces. It is no fun to discover an ATG in turn 18, bring along your mortars to deal with it in turn 21 and then it ends. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manstein22 Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Hi Joachim So I prefer longer battles. 30+ turns per battle allow for decent combat. Supplies might run low if you are trigger-happy, but you need to plan accordingly. Plus you are allowed some scouting/probing before committing your forces. It is no fun to discover an ATG in turn 18, bring along your mortars to deal with it in turn 21 and then it ends. Try my operation Last Chance on the Scenario Depot and the Proving Ground. There are two versions one PBEM and one against the Soviet AI. Seems it is exactly what you are looking for Manstein22 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Downloaded it a few weeks ago. Am busy sorting out my troops for battle 6 of "Ghosts of Napoleon" at the moment. Guess the full division is present right now. **************SPOILER AHEAD ****************** A quick glance on your op: a) IIRC Many guns in reserve but no foot infantry. Swap guns and an inf plt. Especially the sIGs should support the attack - they save lives. The StuGs are one plt and two single vehicles? I'd use 2 pairs or 3 plus 1. c) I'd like to know when night falls. d) I'd like to know the supply&refit situation e) I'd like to know which tanks come as reinforcements. f) The briefing says I should capture all villages and be careful not to be cut off. In an assualt op the usuall way is to race forward. I expect some Soviets on my flanks in battle 1 but in subsequent battles I know the AI deploys only in his setup zone - forward non-immobile units are shifted backwards. For 2pl, a briefing like this is ok. g) Hey, I said ops with 30+turn battles! Maybe after GoN... Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manstein22 Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Hi Joachim There is a new version on the proving ground but that doesn`t deal with your suggestions It is true that the info is not enough. Who knows what typ of tank were in 27th Tank Rgt. I was a little bit carried away when I used the original orders of this battle. Anyway comments are aprecciated as this improves my scenarios *************spoiler ahead************ The StuG platoon has 2 StuG not 3 as in CMBB for 1941 later it is right. The sIG represent a batterie of 105mm How which were in reserve for the Battalion that is historical correct The infantry units were only shadows of what they had been so the lack of more infantry is intended The briefing says that there is a certian possibility to be cut off and ...you will not be cut off but on the retreat if you are not carefull Manstein22 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 A Simple Attack, Comrade All these months later it comes to me. Not an op, must have felt like one though. I was looking through some of Hans' CMBB work at TSD and this one looks familiar. Map looks the same. I could fire up BB and find out. For some reason, Hans' work just fits my style. I didn't know he had done so many of the CMBB scenarios that I enjoyed before CMAK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Howdy J2D, yep that one works in the way you remember. Not quite a operation thou, just a battle : ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folbec Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 "Ops are long battles with supplies and a strange algorithm to decide the frontline." - Be sure to make main terrain features more or less parallel to the edge, the "border" is drawn parallel to it and it is a pain to have units considered as cut off simply because they are behind the average position. - beware of the value of the no mans land, noone understand how it works. Too big and you may be pushed back even if you won an engagement, too small and the border algorithm seems to go berserk. - give enough time per battle (30+ turns) to do something else than a mad rush. Unless the map is real small. - keep the number of battles relativelly low (less than 5), it is much harder to playtest when it increases, and much easier to make a mistake in reinforcements. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 I have personally found that ops are better for armor/mech type forces. The best ops to me involve battalion task force sized meeting engagements. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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