How will you use your SturmTiger?

[Hilltopper]

That's pretty interesting...I had no idea that the Lynx, Puma, etc, had not been mass produced. I learn something every day here!

One thing this 380mm slow monster could do is provide a good decoy. While everyone on the planet is aiming at this thing, the best route would be to run your armor around to the flanks of those doing the aiming and take out a couple.

[Snake Eyes]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan:

It's cost will probably prohibit its use in QBs, but it could be interesting to use in a scenario.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that's the point. What-If scenarios really add luster to the entire CM experience. How many Pershings saw combat; 30? How many Super Pershings even existed; one? Nonetheless, it's a lot of fun to see what they can do.

I think BTS is taking the proper course by including a few rare vehicles with each release.

[Guest Babra]

And is this monstrous projectile going to be HE or shaped charge like the very, VERY disappointing 290mm round on the AVRE? I can take down buildings faster with a Bofors gun than I can with that piece of overpriced junk.

[dalem]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader:

Hey, speaking of the Lynx. What in hell is it? There must have been hundreds of PzII's laying around if not thousands, so what is different about the lynx than the rest of the PzII's.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Lynx was an attempt to field a light recon tank based on the PzII chassis but it turned out to be more expensive and less efficient than extant vehicles (APCs and HTs and the like) so they canned it pretty quick. At least that's the story I read - for all I know the factory owner was sleeping with some Party official's wife and when he was found out the contract was cancelled.

-dale

[Freak]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader:

As for all the sour-pusses who complain about the sturmtiger. For one, I seriously doubt anyone (especially with historical ratings on) would buy one in a QB, and for scenarios -- they might be fun and cool in "what-ifs". There's nothing wrong with including rare or even questionable units, so why all the complaints?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There not complaints! There just having some fun!

I am looking foward to it.

[Guest Babra]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader:

There's nothing wrong with including rare or even questionable units, so why all the complaints?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Other, far less rare, far less questionable and far more useful units will not be making it into the game. I have nothing at all against even the rarest of vehicles, but when they take precedence for inclusion over more common items then I have to get concerned.

[Snake Eyes]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babra:

I can take down buildings faster with a Bofors gun than I can with that piece of overpriced junk.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does your Bofors have a 150mm of armor to protect the crew while it gets into position?

[Freak]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babra:

And is this monstrous projectile going to be HE or shaped charge like the very, VERY disappointing 290mm round on the AVRE? I can take down buildings faster with a Bofors gun than I can with that piece of overpriced junk.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats funny...after all these months with CM, I have yet to use or even see one of those. So the 290mm round of the AVRE is worthless? Meaning its a shaped charge and not HE? What is the difference? Also isn't it's range like 200 meters or something?

Whats the range of a SturmTiger?

And as Babra asked what type of ammo? I am thinking it must be pretty powerful. I had downloaded and amzing looking quicktime video of a SturmTiger fireing a shot. It was almost unreal as you could literally see the bright yellow white projectile leave the gun and then fly towards its target....no shot of the explosion though, but it does seem powerful.

[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Freak ]

[Vanir Ausf B]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babra:

And is this monstrous projectile going to be HE or shaped charge like the very, VERY disappointing 290mm round on the AVRE? I can take down buildings faster with a Bofors gun than I can with that piece of overpriced junk.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good question. If it's shaped it's a junk unit. If it's HE it's probably still a junk unit, but consider this: 14 in. navel guns are 356mm and CM give them a blast rating of 2348. I don't know anything about the Sturmtiger's rocket except its diameter, but if its blast rating is in excess of 2500 one shot could practicaly win a whole game if you were able to hit a concentration of enemy forces. It would take some luck, but... might be fun to try once for ****s and giggles.

[PzKpfw 1]

Well Sturmtigers did see action and despite only a few operational vehichles they did raise havok on US positions in the Westwall area Ie, ST's destroyed bunkers in one shot that US troops were useing. 2 ST from 1001 tore up US Inf & Artillery positions, asd well as damageing US tanks etc.

My only question was why are we seeing ST's in the East instead of in the West where they operated.

Regards, John Waters

[Freak]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B:

Good question. If it's shaped it's a junk unit. If it's HE it's probably still a junk unit, but consider this: 14 in. navel guns are 356mm and CM give them a blast rating of 2348. I don't know anything about the Sturmtiger's rocket except its diameter, but if its blast rating is in excess of 2500 one shot could practicaly win a whole game if you were able to hit a concentration of enemy forces. It would take some luck, but... might be fun to try once for ****s and giggles.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly.

[Guest Babra]

The 290mm spigot mortar fired by the AVRE (which is a bigger projectile with more explosive content than the 280mm main guns on the Scharnhorst or Gneisenau just for comparison's sake) is modelled as a shaped charge, which gives it a puny blast rating, and is incapable of destroying even small wooden buildings within ay reasonable period of time.

[Snake Eyes]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freak:

Whats the range of a SturmTiger?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

4600-6000 meters

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freak:

And as Babra asked what type of ammo?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The weapon fired two kinds of shells (which were more rockets than conventional projectiles). The high explosive shell was cataloged as 38cm 4581 while the hollow-charge shell was the 38cm 4592. Both projectiles had a maximum range of 5,700 meters. The 4592 round was specifically developed to destroy reinforced concrete fortifications but it is not known if this shell was actually deployed and thus the default is the 4581 shell being used in action. With that said, consider all the information on the ballistics and projectile dimensions to be for the 4581 round. The shell came in two parts. The first part was the seamless, longitudinally welded cartridge and ballistic cap. This segment was 500mm long. The second part was the combustion chamber, which was 470mm long. The chamber was filled with about 40kp of diglycol powder, in a rod form. Both segments were linked by a unthreaded tension ring. The warhead was loaded with 135kp of TNT. The mechanical igniter was manually screwed into the front of the shell. All told, the complete round weighed in at 345kg.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Right, but AFAIK the AVRE was intended to be a bunker buster, so that explains the shaped charge. I think the ST was more of a general purpose assault vehicle for leveling urban areas ect. If so that would suggest HE. Some grog will be along to clarify...

EDIT: DOH!. Thanks Snake Eyes

[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ]

[PzKpfw 1]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B:

Good question. If it's shaped it's a junk unit. If it's HE it's probably still a junk unit, but consider this: 14 in. navel guns are 356mm and CM give them a blast rating of 2348. I don't know anything about the Sturmtiger's rocket except its diameter, but if its blast rating is in excess of 2500 one shot could practicaly win a whole game if you were able to hit a concentration of enemy forces. It would take some luck, but... might be fun to try once for ****s and giggles.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well it was a 38 cm 4581 Rocket with a length of 1.54m with a weight of 350kg of which 125kg was HE. Basicly the impact was terrible causeing the sky to become fire red for sevral seconds, with an follow up shockwave.

Reportedly units that were in 38.cm after shock areas were disoreinated for hours from the shockwave alone. So basicly no structure, be it bunker etc should survive even 1 38 cm hit, and thats just the impact not the aftershock or morale effects.

Regards, John Waters

[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: PzKpfw 1 ]

[Kingfish]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snake Eyes:

Does your Bofors have a 150mm of armor to protect the crew while it gets into position?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I could be wrong on this, but AFAIK the AVRE only had 80+mm of armor, while the crocs and VIII had the 150+.

[Vanir Ausf B]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish:

I could be wrong on this, but AFAIK the AVRE only had 80+mm of armor, while the crocs and VIII had the 150+.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The book I have lists ST armor as follows:

Front hull: 100mm at 30 degree angle

Side hull: 60mm

Rear: 80mm

Top: 25mm

[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ]

[Stacheldraht]

Re: the Bofors, better to play as the Germans and use the Ostwind in that capacity. Mobile, armored, tons of ammo, high ROF. Chews through buildings in no time, suppresses infantry well, and penetrates light vehicles or the flanks/rear of heavier vehicles with ease.

[Snake Eyes]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish:

I could be wrong on this, but AFAIK the AVRE only had 80+mm of armor, while the crocs and VIII had the 150+.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I was referring to the SturmTiger. It's armor stats are as follows:

Superstructure front: 150mm at a 45 degree angle

Superstructure sides: 80mm at a 30+0 degree angle

Superstructure rear: 80mm at a 0 degree angle

Superstructure top and bottom: 40mm - 25mm at a 90 degree angle

Hull front: 100mm at a 25 degree angle

Hull sides: 60mm at a 0 degree angle

Hull rear: 80mm at a 9 degree angle

Hull top and bottom: 25mm at a 90 degree angle

[Cos]

Ok here's how to use them.

A Zamboni get the ice ready over the TRP (which now looks like center ice) and departs as the soviet forces come into view. Soviets stop and start playing hockey and 45 seconds later wamo that nice little round from the ST takes them out.

[Freak]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B:

Right, but AFAIK the AVRE was intended to be a bunker buster, so that explains the shaped charge.

[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You've got to wonder why the Brits (can I say that?) made the AVRE model tank with thin armor. Why they didnt use the 152mm armor version is beyond me. I have to assume that the 290mm gun was unable to mount on the 152 mm armored model. After all, how does a tank with weak armor take out bunkers with maximum range of 200 some odd meters.

[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Freak ]

[Snake Eyes]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cos:

Ok here's how to use them.

A Zamboni get the ice ready over the TRP (which now looks like center ice) and departs as the soviet forces come into view. Soviets stop and start playing hockey and 45 seconds later wamo that nice little round from the ST takes them out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then the Sturmtiger crew stops to do some ice fishing.

[Freak]

I wonder if we will get to see an animation for that 10 minute reload. :eek:

[Snake Eyes]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PzKpfw 1:

My only question was why are we seeing ST's in the East instead of in the West where they operated.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good question. However, one of the ST protos saw action during the Warsaw uprising in August, 1944.

The real reason, I beleive, is that BTS ran out of time to include it in CM:BO and they really, really want it in. Isn't it great having real wargamers designing our favorite wargame?

[The Commissar]

Ive seen a movie somewhere on the net where the ST fired at a large multistoried appartment building or a very large factory of some sort.

The whole f#ing thing went down. I mean, the whole goddamn building. The bomb that scumbag McVey set off didn't do half that damage.

I don't know about you guys, but Im trying this thing out at least once in city fights. Point it at a city block, let loose, and the whole area goes splat. As someone mentioned, what doesn't get utterly demolished by the massive blast itself, will get shocked, routed, panicked, and broken mighty fast. Then retreat, wait some 8-10 turns, repeat all over again.

I think the major trick with using the ST (besides keeping the damn thing alive) will be finding a worthwhile target. The last thing you want to do is to waste a shot that takes 10 minutes ro reload on some depleted conscript platoon.

Hey, can you guys imagine what will happen if BTS doesn't fix the self-targeting for vehicles? I can see threads with people screaming bloody murder because their ST decided a panicked crew 600 metres away was a better target then an entrenched company you've been waiting to destroy! :eek: