To the Allied players: Help this poor, German-playing shmoo

[Commissar]

Since this game first came out, I have exclusively played the Germans in all my games. I love their neat toys and being the "bad" guys. HOwever, I have recently decided to switch to the other side for a change of pace. In some ways, it seems easier to play as the Allies than as the Germans (although I haven't yet met up with elite troops supported by Tigers). Anyway, for those of you who play as the Allies on a regular basis, what equipment do you buy on a regular basis? I have found that the 40mm Bofors AA gun is VERY effective as one poster has already stated. Is there any other specific piece of equipment that you guys always get as well? Thanks

[John Kelly]

I like the M36 Jackson. It's fairly cheap and the 90mm gun will handle the heaviest German tanks. You must be careful, its armor is quite weak. John

[Guy w/gun]

No matter what I buy, I like to get at least one M4. Keep it away from the front lines and then use it to patch holes where your inf began to take a beating Watch out for enemy armor though.

[This message has been edited by Guy w/gun (edited 02-02-2001).]

[Wilhammer]

I like the M-8 HMC. It is so cheap, and the 75 howitzer packs a wallop. I find in my QBs of 1200+ I can buy one per platoon.

I second the M-36.

Another good purchase is the Mortar Halftrack. Bring it in after you have located the enemy, and put them in action where they can't be easily targeted, and harass the s**t out of his infantry.

The M-20 Armored car is dirt cheap, and the .50 cal, though puny on the ammo, is real useful as a killer of German HTs and ACs. I try to find room in my budget for 2 of them either in support of the M-36 or in conjunction with the M-8 Armored Car.

Keep your American infnatry in the 50 meter to 120 meter firefight range.

Above all, remeber that CM battles are won by the infantry.

[jgdpzr]

One of the greatest strengths the allies possess is their artillery, especially the Americans. Death from above can really level the playing field.

As far as tanks and stuff go, the Hellcat is a great TD for the Americans, especially when used en masse and at high rates of speed. The Brits provide you with excellent firepower (anything with a 17 pounder can give any German tank a headache) and good armo(u)r (the Churchill can be a monster to take down). The Stuart and Greyhound also make wonderful flanking elements because of their speed. Finally, the .50 is murderous on German HTs and ACs.

See, the allies have some cool toys also!

[Jeff Heidman]

ONe rather unappreciated Allied vehicle is the lowly half-track.

They cna be very useful en masse to provide serious MG FP over very long ranges.

Jeff Heidman

[Michael Dorosh]

I have nothing to say, I just got alarmed to see three threads whose subject started with OT at the top of the list.

Is there some reason people aren't using the General Forum????

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http://wargames.freehosting.net/cmbits.htm

[Juardis]

The 0.50 cal most definitely.

A greyhound or 4.

Arty (they get lots more than the Germans, especially the Americans).

Bofors - you're only AA defense plus a good infantry killer w/ high rof.

The M4 105, GREAT infantry buster-upper.

A M36B Jackson - big gun or the M18 Hellcat if playing the rule of 76.

Did I mention arty yet?

Zooks/piats - must have

Any allied tank with a 76mm gun instead of the 75mm gun. I like to couple a 76mm with the 105.

Glider squads - they have lots of inherent AT capability.

Arty, have I mentioned that yet?

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Jeff Abbott

[Guy w/gun]

Since the number of posts in the general forum is so low compared to this one, I think people just want to be heard. Myself included.

[danielh]

Of course, the allieds are favoured in many subtle ways.

1. The superior german tankguns are countered by the ability of weaker tanks to throw smoke forever, thus lengthening mid-distance engagements for an easy flank-manouver, or outgun them to force the always fewer german tanks to waist their ammo and force them to come into the killingzone of the allied guns. Moreover in a stationary gunfight once you have the range you would normally hit with subsequent shots at also stationary targets nearby, not so in CM of course.

2. Allied inf-formations normally are equipped with many mortars. Still the mortars have such a silly stupid precision which makes every attempt to debate the germantanks superiority a in long range engagements a bad joke. Mortars regularly catch my tanks guns with their 3rd shot at distances beyond 1000 m (F**K).

3. The stupid gundamage mainly hinders the heavy german tanks, if they withstand direct hits, their guns get damaged (and all the MG's too of course...), even though the PzIV,PZ VI and Kingtiger have heavy gun mantelings to minimize gundamage...... (F**K).

4. The "mythical" power of the M2 machine gun, killing easily more infantry with 25 ammunition than a german MG42 (You can shoot a man only once, not so with the mythical M2)

Moreover the ballistical properties of the M2's armor piercing round was poor against angled and face hardened armor, both very present with the SPW251 for instance.

5. The german relied heavily on the 20 mm cannon as a comparable to the M2, but since it has some explosive power it is handled like a arty gun and not as a rifle, and multiple shots are calculated as a single, so almost no threat for infantry. In real a Quad 20mm gun had devastating firepower against infantry.

6. Tank to tank communication is not simulated, a feature which the german put much emphasize on. The germans were generally known for their good and flexible communication -> Poland-, France- and Africa- tankraids wouldn't have been succesful otherwise.

Although the allieds had learned from their errors in 1942/43 and had i think very good communications in 1944 in France, it undermines the more expensive and thus fewer german tanks potential.

The game enforces you to use inappropriate tactics, and take the "war of attrtion" approach with heavy shelling and bloody close quarter fighting.

Btw: Up to the outbreak at St.Lo the allieds had suffered about the same casualties as the axis. The allieds could "easily" replace those casualties whereas the axis could not.

With disgust

Daniel

[Commissar]

God, yes. I have noticed that Allied infantry get all types of goodies but when I purchase German units, I feel short changed now. Ok, the panzerfausts rock but I get no organic artillery assets of any kind. I do miss the German armor but the Allies seem to have all sorts of other neat toys to make up for it.

[The Commissar]

Commissar,

Ill said it many many times, and Ill say it as long as it needs to be said: Nothing beats M-18's in AT roles! Get a pack of the Cats to travel together, and you can bring down KT's as easily as a puny PZIV. It's all about coordination with them, so be careful.

Allied infantry doesnt leave much to the imagination, but I usually get Rifle mixed with Airborne. For a large game, I'd get 2 Rifle platoons for 1 Airborne. Accordingly, I like to make my Airborne Vets as opposed to Reg Rifle, to take advantage of the Airborne superiority.

Arty is nice and cheap, and Priests are a KILLER! Get at least two of them in medium/large games, so you can easily lay waste to any town/woods/foxholes/whatever the enemy is hiding in. They are great weapons, and rout enemy very quickly. Just keep the Germans off their back with your own tanks/M-18's.

Hope that helped,

Cheers!

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"...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

[Iron Duke]

LOL...

Commissar and The Commissar.

When I first saw the post and Commissar said all he ever played was the Germans I was like...What??? Did we not have a good debate on the merits of the M-18 and its cronies? And on flank and maneuver??? Hehe...

Hi "The Commissar"...you guys related? lol

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One shot...One Kill

[This message has been edited by Iron Duke (edited 02-02-2001).]

[The Commissar]

I'm his evil clone

Say, Duke, havent seen you about lately. Whats been up, you arent posting nearly as much. Busy busy busy?

Cheers!

[Guest Rommel22]

I love German SMG plattoons. (volksGranediers) They wipe out U.S inf. ina flash. That is why you keep your inf. about 100m from the German inf.

[Tanaka]

Originally posted by The Commissar:

...but I usually get Rifle mixed with Airborne. For a large game, I'd get 2 Rifle platoons for 1 Airborne. Accordingly, I like to make my Airborne Vets as opposed to Reg Rifle, to take advantage of the Airborne superiority...

I don't like this part, don't know why ?

Maybe it sounds gamey...

[The Commissar]

I always thought that Airborne units would be used with regular grunts. You know, after they were parachooted to some poor, bombed out part of Europe, they do their thing and the regular infantry catch up with them.

Then again, Ill freely admit that Im no expert on American troop uses/placements (hell, not much with Germans either ).

Either way, 'I' think its not too absurd, and if my opponent thinks otherwise, I tell him to eat a Rifle Grenade

Seriously, if someone knows more then me on the subject, I expect the, to give me lectures on correct unit use if they expect me not to be 'somewhat' gamey.

Cheers!

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"...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

[Firefly]

In Normandy the British airborne units stuck around for the entire campaign, they weren't supposed to, but they were needed. During the Bulge US airborne units were used as infantry because they were all that was available until Patton arrived. So it's not totally gamey, but it wasn't done on a regular basis.

[chrisl]

At risk of feeding a troll...

Originally posted by danielh:

Of course, the allieds are favoured in many subtle ways.

1. The superior german tankguns are countered by the ability of weaker tanks to throw smoke forever,

That's really not true at all- allied tanks generally carry a few smoke rounds, but if that's enough to get you blown to bits, you're probably doing something wrong

Moreover in a stationary gunfight once you have the range you would normally hit with subsequent shots at also stationary targets nearby, not so in CM of course.

You should never get in a stationary tank duel from either side. If you're in one place for very long, all hell will rain down on your head-- arty, direct fire, zooks, etc. Your opponent should be moving, too, to keep you from getting an accurate range.

Still the mortars have such a silly stupid precision which makes every attempt

I lose very few tank guns to on map mortars--mortars suck at hitting a moving target. Off map arty does get the occasional gun, but not all that often-- sitting under a barrage isn't a good thing to do. The mortars are generally much more effective when used to indirect fire against opponents MG42s.

3. The stupid gundamage mainly hinders the heavy german tanks,

Because a similar hit would go in one side and out the other side of any US tank-- they explode from hits that would cause gun damage to a Panther.

4. The "mythical" power of the M2 machine gun, killing easily more infantry with 25 ammunition than a german MG42 (You can shoot a man only once, not so with the mythical M2)

The M2 is nice against halftracks, but generally the M1919 seems better against infantry. I haven't noticed the M2 being that devastating since a few patches ago. I have still (in the past day) seen US squads decimated by the MG42. Still, there are no ueberweapons.

6. Tank to tank communication is not simulated, a feature which the german put much emphasize on. The germans were generally known for their good and flexible communication

...allieds had learned from their errors in 1942/43 and had i think very good communications in 1944 in France, it

CM is representing only 1944 and later (Beyond Overlord) a period in which you seem to agree that both sides had good tank comms. One always has nearly perfect control over ones own tanks.

The game enforces you to use inappropriate tactics, and take the "war of attrtion" approach with heavy shelling and bloody close quarter fighting.

I think that really depends on the scenario or QB parameters. To some extent, I agree that that's true, but part of that is inherent in the scope of the game-- Infantry/Combined Arms battles of the company up to battalion level. It's not a tank sim. Tanks are part of the game, but they're just another tool in the arsenal. As for realistic/unrealistic tactics, there have been a fair number of professional soldiers who think it does a pretty fair job of forcing realistic tactics. I tend to try to keep my opponent more than 100 m away as the US, but if I have a bunch of german SMG squads, I want to get in close. If you want to sit at a distance and pop the enemy with long range tank fire, you have to wait for the north africa version (#3 I think). There was a whole lot of close range infantry fighting in 1944-45 Europe.

If you want to PBEM send me a file (1.1)

As for tips on playing the Americans:

-keep your vehicles moving at all times.

-as mentioned above, the M8 HMC is great for inf support.

-Hellcats and Jacksons are great TDs, but they should either be moving fast (with moves plotted all the way to the next cover) or doing a very short "move" segment where they can target and fire.

-Get in close to take advantage of fast turrets.

-US arty is great-- I don't leave home without at least one 81 mm FO, and the 105s are nice too. Especially if there's lots of forest to generate treebursts.

-try to force the germans to expose themselves at 100+ meters.

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"If you can taste the difference between caviar on a cracker and ketchup on a Kit-Kat while blindfolded, you have not had enough aquavit to be ready for lutefisk." (stolen from some web page about lutefisk)

[Forever Babra]

Flame! Allied flamethrowing vehicles have a much better range than the German crud. Try a Crocodile or a Badger on for size.

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When it's my turn to march up to Glory,

I'm gonna have one HELL of a story...

[Boozer]

All the artillary you can afford and then more infantry , more infantry and a couple extra bazookas, and more infantry if you can afford it. Did I mention more infantry?

Boozer

Something that has worked for me a couple times is a 76 AT gun too, if you find a spot that can sight a third of the map, one of those deadly german tanks will die.

[Tanaka]

Originally posted by Firefly:

In Normandy the British airborne units stuck around for the entire campaign, they weren't supposed to, but they were needed. During the Bulge US airborne units were used as infantry because they were all that was available until Patton arrived. So it's not totally gamey, but it wasn't done on a regular basis.

Commissar,

Above is an example of ground use of airborne units... It is very different from mixing at company level airborne platoons with Infantry platoons.

I think this game is much more fun/real if we only purchase inside the troops type options

[Warmaker]

If some Allied players had Panzer envy, I as an Axis player have Artillery envy. Now, I don't play as the Allies much but it just seems artillery support seems more numerous for the Allies with the Yanks possessing outstanding arty. Unless there's lots of points involved, I can rarely even get more than 105mm arty but I always seem to get plastered by Yankee 155mm guns. As problematic as those 155 Mike Mikes are, at least those Iowa-Class Battleships' 16 inch guns were at the Pacific.

Oh, I guess this is obvious but I feel it just needs to be mentioned to be sure. If you've played lots of games as Germany, in particular with the Big Cats, don't use the majority of Allied armor the same way in having complete trust in your frontal armor. Yes, there are good guns available for the Allies but any good German unit has at least the 75mm which the PzKpfw IV's even have and keep in mind that practically all infantry units have Panzerfausts to give you problems.

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"Uncommon valor was a common virtue"-Adm.Chester Nimitz of the Marines on Iwo Jima

[Commissar]

It is impossible for 'The Commissar' to be my evil twin. I am already evil so the "evil" term wouldn't be enough of a seperating discription. I however did register on this forum first but I don't have the honor of having an article for my first name. I am wondering why he didn't just use Kommisar instead. I think it would be technically a more correct spelling. Oh, well.

[Commissar]

I wouldn't dream of using Allied armor like I would German armor. Getting into a 1-to-1 slug match with German armor usually seem to end badly for the allies unless you can put two or three tanks agaist one. Smoke is a kind friend for the Allies or at least the computer certainly seems to think so.

[This message has been edited by Commissar (edited 02-02-2001).]