Webmasters posting "Stolen" mods

[Pud]

Being a modder and a webmaster I agree with Manx 100% and can appreciate Scipio anger 100% at what happened. As said Public domain does not distinguish copyright, however I think the case here is what can be done to stop plagiarism.

Most are us are not wealthy enough to take these issues to court, not that any of us would want to. The only real weapons against this sort of thing are, as Manx said, removal from websites, although this wont work in the case of the violator having his own site to distribute the copied work. We as a community have quite alot of power in that most modders appreciate praise (whether they admit it or not) for what they have done and its possibly this very "praise" is what the plagiarist is trying to receive (sorry, yes Im a Psychologist graduate). If we as a community continue to do the opposite these sorts of events will diminish and will deter others from doing the same, eg remove from websites with comments as to their removal, even to treating them as an outcast here on the forum, berhaps even banning.

I suspect this may bring comments regarding similarities to schoolyard behaviour but unfortunately its all we really have. As a community we need to stick together, modders need our support or else you will find there will be few mods in future. Who would want to do a mod with the knowledge that it will be taken , changed 1% and then released to be taken and used by us in place of the original.

A central modlist (like manxs) would help, if a mod is in dispute/or proven to be stolen it can be removed from this "register", this would in turn not give the sort after recognition that the plagiariser is seeking.

Sorry for the long post.

[edit - this doesnt apply of coursewhen there is discussion and agreement between the original work and the new works artists]

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Pud ]</p>

[Michael Dorosh]

Holy Mother of God, three more pages of this **** (pardon the French). I think there is a limit as to how much courtesy and bending over the community will be willing to do for one or two individuals, isn't there? I agree with Treeburst, personally, but do recognize that Gordon is right vis a vis copyright.

So if Scipio or Tiger want to sue for damages, I think that would be quite entertaining.

If anybody honestly cares enough about this, go ahead and boycott Maximus' work. It's not like he stands to lose money over it any more than Tiger or Scipio.

And it's not like anyone has any idea who actually uses any of these mods in the first place. It's quite possible no one has ever bothered to use 90 percent of the mods at dispute here anyhow.

My big concern is what the point spread will be between the Stamps and the Bombers on Sunday. Any Winnipeggers out there wanna bet?

[mrcobbler]

By far the most bizarre discussion to appear on this forum in the ten months I've been at this game.

I love the mods, all kinds, CMMOS, new grass, uniforms, interface mods, sound files, etc. I have as much fun putting them in, creating new CMMOS Filesets, logging them ALL in an EXCEL spreadsheet complete with dates, authors, zip files, and mods as actually playing the game. I guarantee the creators of these gems gets the same 'high' from creating one. The 'high' is no doubt multiplied by a factor of ??? everytime they post a picture here on the forum, and fifteen of us 'mod slaves' gush and flatter all over the place.

When the mod hits a server site, with an address, it becomes 'fair game' for us all to download. And download we do. Just like Napster. And more praise, flattery, and just plain 'mush' flies all over the modder again. That is his 'pay', his reward for the hard work, for his voluntary FUN. But now it is MY mod, to use. And if someone wants to paint it pink with a squirrel tail on the antenna, so be it. But we'll all know that the chassis and gear were really created by Gordon/Tiger/Fernando/Tanks/etc. So who really cares about the Pink Panther, those real modders already got their well deserved praise and recognition and have moved on to another. We the users know who the REAL modders are....

Shoeman

[Michael Dorosh]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Big Time Software:

I'm with Manx on this one, 100%

It is up to the indivdual making the submission to be honest about the materials. If a webmaster fines out later on that this did not happen, and is asked to remove the work, then it should be removed promptly. But it is not the responsibility of the webmaster to do a background check on each and every BMP, WAV, or scenario file. Period

However, I suppose if the webmaster has a reason to suspect dishonesty (say for example, a past problem with the individual) then the webmaster should ask point blank if the individual has the right to submit the stuff. If the answer is "yes", then it is innocent until proven guilty. If someone repeatedly lies, the the webmaster should just ignore submissions from that person for ever more (legit or not).

I also agree that it would be good to have a standard "form", or "forms", for modders to include with their work which outlines the modder's intents. It should be pretty easy to get an agreement on such stuff, so I suggest going for it.

And yes, our BIG beef with that German company was that they were obviously intending to sell other people's work for a profit. We were also not happy with the way they were using our registered trademark game name and not mentioning our company. This is an entirely seperate issue.

Steve<hr></blockquote>

Amen, Steve.

Manx Thanks for your continued hard work; I think you and Steve are 100 percent correct, and we should all be considered innocent until proven guilty.

And I think you did the right thing be removing the "offending" mods. It is up to all of us to police ourselves, so let's stop wasting BTS' bandwidth on this.

[Pvt. Ryan]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

My big concern is what the point spread will be between the Stamps and the Bombers on Sunday. Any Winnipeggers out there wanna bet?<hr></blockquote>

The Stamps are gonna get licked, or somefink.

I thought that up. ©Me.

[Michael Dorosh]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan:

The Stamps are gonna get licked, or somefink.

I thought that up. ©Me.<hr></blockquote>

Don't even joke, boyo. We are about to become the new City of Champions . Flames in 5 in the Stanley Cup Final, and Stamps by 22 in Montreal on Sunday.

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]</p>

[Foobar]

Does this mean that I have to remove said mods from my hard-drive? I would hate to be breaking any laws right now. Please tell me if I need to do so.

[Pud]

[Foobar]

[Pud]

[Madmatt]

Okay, this same topic seems to rear its ugly head every few months and each time I wade in, express my own views on it, piss off a bunch of people, lock up the thread and then everything returns to normal.

So, where does CMHQ stand on this whole issue of copyrights, authors rights and pulling mods?

Good question. As to the copyright issue, just cast your gaze to the bottom of any CMHQ page and you will see that ALL the content, every mod, pic and even my bald headed pate is copyrighted of CMHQ...I even have that little C thingy, What does that mean? Hell I don't know! In three pages of posts I have yet to come to any conclusion on what all of this means.

So let me tell you what it means to me, Madmatt, headhoncho supremo of CMHQ, the longest running and largest of all the CM Websites.

What it means is that we (meaning CMHQ) accepts all submission on GOOD FAITH and will post said material as we see fit, when we see fit, for as long as we see fit in the domain of CMHQ.

Pay attention to the last bit..."In the domain of CMHQ". What that means is that this control of the mod only extends as far as my site goes. Beyond that I don't care what occurs.

Basically I will post it ON CMHQ until I decide by action or inaction to pull it. PERIOD.

Now, if someone sends me a file or mod or something else and it turns out to not be that persons work then the OFFENDEE needs to get hold of the OFFENDER and THEY need to work it out and when they do the OFFENDER needs to contact me and I will take appropriate action! I have enough worries running a website without having to worry about bruised egos, or perceived slights by those with thin skin.

I am not unsympathetic to the mod authors or anyone else that see's their work being mishandled, but distribution control needs to start with THEM and not I. I run a website, a website with thousands of files for public and free download and when someone asks for me to pull a mod all the time invested in hosting and supporting that file is lost.

This has now occurred to CMHQ three times and that's three times too many.

No one is getting rich making mods for CM (no, not even I) and I think that to be honest this whole issue has really lost its perspective in a rush to explain legal jargon and procedures.

I run CMHQ because I love the game. I host mods and other files to enhance others love of the game. Anything else, to me, is trivial.

Do I think some sort of Standardized Distribution Message should be included in every mod? Yes, and have always pushed for such consistency across mods.

Do I think there needs to be some sort of Federation of Mod Authors for CM to better resolve these types of issues? Sure, it benefits us all when Mod Authors share not just their time but ideas and concerns with one another. Hell I will even host a site dedicated to this purpose along with a mailserv list if such a group wishes to be formed!

What do I think of the whole issue which started this mess? I think its sad that an agreement could not have been reached much sooner in private between the two main parties (the original mod submitter and the artist) without drawing the webmasters and now the CM Community into the whole thing. Perhaps some people have a artificially skewed sense of importance (yeah I KNOW I do!) I am not sure, but its been a huge waste of time and resources that could have been better spent by all involved.

You wonder why Manx hasn't done anything on CMHQ yet? Well now you know, poor guy has been busy refereeing this stupid cluster hen humpfest for the past two weeks! :mad:

So let me summarize.

DON'T SEND SOMETHING TO CMHQ IF YOU DON'T WANT IT POSTED! IF THAT SOMETHING IS NOT YOURS THEN DON'T SEND IT UNTIL YOU HAVE GOTTEN PERMISSION...IF YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT IS YOURS POSTED THAT YOU DIDN'T WANT POSTED THEN YOU NEED TO HAVE A NICE CHAT WITH THE PERSON THAT DID SEND IT...

Sounds pretty simple, don't it?

Nice, now go read some other, more interesting thread!

Madmatt

p.s. and yes I am closing this thread down as well

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Madmatt ]</p>