Snipers

[Jurgen6]

Does anyone know how to use snipers? I would like to be able to shoot and run, like they did in "Enemy at the Gates." As it is they seem to get off a shot or two and then they find themselves at the wrong end of a shooting gallery. Any thoughts?

[M. Bates]

Hi.

Get your sharshooter to fire at the enemy from a tall building/crop of woods etc., then simply use the "Withdraw" command with "Hide" for good effect.

Works every time

[Mr. Hankey]

I generally use sharpshooters in my tank hunting. I place them on the military crest (forward slope) of a hill in the woods with good line of sight of the battle field. I'll have a tank/tank killer on the reverse slope.

Say, he spied an AFV on the last turn and it's your turn to make a move. Have the sharpshooter target the AFV. At the same time, hunt your tank over the hill. Give the tank a pause of UP TO about 30 seconds, because it will take the sharpshooter awhile to sight the target and take the shot.

By the time your tank gets over the hill, the enemy AFV should be buttoned up because of the 30.06 slug careening past the TC's ear and your tank should pop him, if he can get a target sighting. The guy will never know what hit him. Then reverse the tank out of sight.

I'm currently playing a PBEM where I took out about 6 AFV's using this technique. My opponent has no idea what's killing him. I'm probably just lucky in this game as the terrain allows me good field of view of his likely areas of travel, and I have two excellent hills for hiding my tanks.

I don't usually take my sharpshooters near the heavy fighting as it's just one guy and he's a high priority target. If he can get a shot on a squad from a distance, I let him, because he can make a squad go to ground with a single shot, but that's not my usual role for him.

For tank hunting I use a motto I saw on someone's signature. "See, decide, attack, reverse".

[ 05-03-2001: Message edited by: Mr. Hankey ]

[M. Bates]

That's quite a good one, although I must say that I place AT guns on hills rather than tanks waiting to strike.

Would defintely have uses though.

[Mr. Hankey]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M. Bates:

That's quite a good one, although I must say that I place AT guns on hills rather than tanks waiting to strike.

Would defintely have uses though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, using a tank has the advantage of mobility. If you get spotted, the sniper can mount up and you can both get the hell outta there before the arty starts to fall. AT guns are typically dead after the first couple of volleys.

I don't always sit and wait around with my tanks like a spider, but if I can, I sure will. I think it's better to have a tank left near the end of a fight for support, rather than "John Wayne" them all over the place and get them killed.

[Nabla]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M. Bates:

Get your sharshooter to fire at the enemy from a tall building/crop of woods etc., then simply use the "Withdraw" command with "Hide" for good effect.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I must admit that I've never used the withdraw command. I thought you could only use it as a last resort to get out of the battlefield. Never had to run away so far Could you explain what the command does in this case?

[jgdpzr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nabla:

I must admit that I've never used the withdraw command. I thought you could only use it as a last resort to get out of the battlefield. Never had to run away so far Could you explain what the command does in this case?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It gets your unit moving pronto (as long as it isn't pinned), so there is no delay at all. Good for that extraction that must happen NOW. Perfect for the one-man sharpshooter.

[Nabla]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jgdpzr:

It gets your unit moving pronto (as long as it isn't pinned), so there is no delay at all. Good for that extraction that must happen NOW. Perfect for the one-man sharpshooter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent. So what's the cost? I mean, why not use it every time you have to retreat?

[jgdpzr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nabla:

Excellent. So what's the cost? I mean, why not use it every time you have to retreat?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The cost is basically they just bug out, without much of any consideration for anything but running away. So, they are easily shot in the back. I think there may also be some morale hits, so that they will break quicker when in this mode, but I'm not sure about that. The other consideration is that sometimes you may not want your unit to start running immediately. For example, when you plan on dropping some smoke down to cover a retreat, it is probably better to order them to hide (hit the dirt) and pause a bit before showing their backside. But certainly, I have found the withdrawal command to come in handy when I just know some HE or concentrated small arms fire is about to come down and I want my unit out before it does.

[Juju]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nabla:

Excellent. So what's the cost? I mean, why not use it every time you have to retreat?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The cost is that a unit withdrawing like that has a nasty chance of panicking, which is NOT a good thing in this case. Since that sharpshooter is most likely out of command in cases mentioned above.

Always use this command with extreme caution!

[ 05-03-2001: Message edited by: Juju ]

[CombinedArms]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nabla:

I must admit that I've never used the withdraw command. I thought you could only use it as a last resort to get out of the battlefield. Never had to run away so far Could you explain what the command does in this case?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've started to use "withdraw" a lot to get my guys out of untenable situations. You don't need to withdraw from "the whole battlefield"--you can just move 10-50 mm if you want, to better cover. The main advantage is there is no command delay--which often spells the difference between life and death. I didn't know you could put a "HIDE" on the end of it. I like that!

One limitation of the withdraw command is that the computer won't always let you withdraw in the direction you'd like to go. You also can't insert any waypoints. But when it works it can be a lifesafer: e.g. when a tank has started to level your building or you note a spotting round landing in your squad's area at the end of a turn. Withdrawing under direct small arms fire can be dicier, unless you're moving into immediate cover--I think the modeling is that these guys are running without much concern for watching their tails, so under close range fire from infantry they tend to take a lot of casualties unless they get quickly out of the line of fire. But for getting out the backdoor of a building or pull back behind the crest of a hill it's a great command.

[Juju]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CombinedArms:

I didn't know you could put a "HIDE" on the end of it. I like that!

One limitation of the withdraw command is that the computer won't always let you withdraw in the direction you'd like to go.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To the first: You cannot put any other command after a withdraw command, as this will instantly negate the withdraw command.

To the second: You can only withdraw towards the 'general' direction of a friendly mapedge (usually your rear area only, no pun intended).

[Jasper]

There's a couple of articles on the sites listed below that talk about *real* snipers. Not the 'sharpshooters' in CM, but you should be able to tell the differenc (if you care to). :cool:

[Moon]

A little word of caution about withdrawing. There is one serious drawback to this which might more than offset the advantage of the "no delay" feature - and that is that your units are more prone to get in a panic when withdrawing AND - more importantly even - to get that awful "!" in the unit window. This means that the unit will be permanently rattled for the rest of the battle, i.e. more likely to panic next time somebody (or something) is shooting at it. I used to use withdraw a lot more than I am doing right now, because a simple FAST MOVE command to the rear might sometimes be slower, but will leave your guys in relatively good order. Withdraw is excellent for situations where you really really need to get out quick, but nothing else.

[Panther G]

I've noticed that when units withdraw, their spotting capabilities are drastically reduced, and they seem to make a lot of noise.

Panther G

[jgdpzr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juju:

To the first: You cannot put any other command after a withdraw command, as this will instantly negate the withdraw command.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, yes you can issue a hide command. Simply issue the Withdraw command and place it, then while the unit is still highlighted, hit hide. It will withdraw and hide.

[Mlapanzer]

I've become a big fan of the sniper lately. Along with the afore mentioned uses I like to pair then with a Zook. They can slip throught enemy lines more easily or hide while the enemy infantry moves past them. One time I had a sniper with a very good view of an open area that had to be crossed by the enemy. I let the infanrty squads go by then just slaughtered his Mg's and flamethrower that were following up. That one man held up alot of fire power during the critical turns of the battle. Also I find it pays to buy veteran or better snipers and zooks. They hide and shoot much better.

[Juju]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jgdpzr:

Actually, yes you can issue a hide command. Simply issue the Withdraw command and place it, then while the unit is still highlighted, hit hide. It will withdraw and hide.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry jgdpzr. I stand corrected. You are, of course, right. Silly ol' me...

[jgdpzr]

Strange double post.

No problem Juju. The only reason I knew is I had just done it right before I read this post.

[ 05-03-2001: Message edited by: jgdpzr ]

[Wolfe]

One of the best uses of sharpshooters is as a simple observer. Sharpshooters have better spotting abilities than other units. So you can place him on overwatch in some scattered trees or move him forward to observe enemy troop movements. Once you know where the enemy is moving, you can pound them with artillery. The sharpshooter doesn't even have to fire a shot to be extremely useful.

Of course, if you're the one attacking and your enemy doesn't move his forces, the sharpshooter's spotting won't be quite as useful. Although he can still help with finding hidden enemy AT guns once they open up.

- Chris