jgdpzr Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Just thought I'd throw in my .02 worth garnered from years of model building experience: While it is possible that some vehicles may have been released from the factory in 1945 in schwartzgrau, there is little direct evidence of this beyond some battlefield reports. As others have alluded, most cases of presumed schwartzgrau were misinterpreted panzer green, the mistake coming from analyzing black and white photos. There are confirmed reports of vehicles in overall panzer green, and yes there was a period in late 1944 in which many vehicles were left in the red oxide primer, with some oversprays in both panzer green and dunkelgelb. One last note, the order switching from schwartzgrau to dunkelgelb was issued in February, 1943. At least this is what my memory still holds regarding the subject, of course I have been on model building hiatus ever since CM came out, so some fuzziness may have crept in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted May 29, 2001 Author Share Posted May 29, 2001 OK, I've tried to do a dark panzergrun version. It is quite green, even a little darker than the picture of the Panther F above. I could try lightening it up a bit. But it just doesn't look right in-game. My original version looks best, IMO. Question is then, what color should the Panther A be then when Fernando gets around to doing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted May 29, 2001 Author Share Posted May 29, 2001 OK, lets look at them again. Here's the first version: And here's the darker green version: OK, now which is better? I still like the original attempt better. It just looks more in-tune to the sub-dued look we all kinda want doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Put a red star on it and you have a captured Panther. Max, it looks good in both colors, but personally I feel it would look out of place on the CM battlefield. How many were actually painted this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgdpzr Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Maximus, Actually, on my computer screen, the grayish green appears fairly close to panzer green. Panzer green does have a slightly gray tint to it. However, it probably should retain just a bit more a green tint. As Private Ryan said, the second one seems to be relatively close to Russian armor green. If you have ever seen Jentz's seminal work on the Panther, (Germany's Panther Tank: The Quest for Combat Supremacy) you will note there are a few photos of a Panther that is predominately panzer green. It is black and white so of course it won't help with hue, but it provides an example of a camo pattern with green as the base color. Here is a link from the Testor's page that has a small thumbnail slide of their Panzer Olivgrun, it seems to be fairly close if memory serves me correctly. Of course, with any computer monitor, it is hard to tell. The link: http://store1.yimg.com/I/internethobbies_1634_25133854 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted May 29, 2001 Author Share Posted May 29, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jgdpzr: Maximus, Actually, on my computer screen, the grayish green appears fairly close to panzer green. Panzer green does have a slightly gray tint to it. However, it probably should retain just a bit more a green tint. As Private Ryan said, the second one seems to be relatively close to Russian armor green.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Agreed. I like the first one better as well. The all "green" one, just doesn't look right on the CMBO battlefield, but the original greyish-green one does. But Pvt. Ryan's right, that green Panther with Red Star would be acceptable as a captured Russian Panther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Hope this works First off i would like to say sorry to Maximus for butting in on his thread , but seeing as we are discussing Panthers et al , here is one i whipped up this evening. Please note that this mod would not have been possible at this time for me( due to work constraints) ,were it not for the fact that Fernando kindly gave me permission to alter his Mono colour Panther G. The work that he has put into these mods is just fantastic and he has saved me many many hours work by allowing me to mod his work. I have added Zimmerit , but no weathering yet......should be done by early next week...i hope ;P as its still to go under testing. Again sincere thanks to Fernando for allowing me to use his work as a basis for a mod. Regards Måkjager ps Dave....YES...I KNOW i am still using the stock grass textures ...that is going to change later this summer when i upgrade in time for CM2 [ 05-29-2001: Message edited by: Måkjager ] [ 05-29-2001: Message edited by: Måkjager ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmead Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Maximus: I prefer the first one you displayed as it appears more gray than green, the second is definitely a green tank in US color range. The one thing I find very disturbing is the nearly black weld line on the side plate to upper glacis intersection and the strong nearly black line at the shadow where the front glacis meets and sticks up above the hull top in front of the hull hatches. The shadow under the shurtzen rail and gun cleaning tube is also too dark. On the dinkelgelb version the shadow areas are also verging on too dark but the welds are more a shade change than a dark line and have some detail of the weld bead in evidence. I do like the gray version, it would be a nice variation to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 I'd just like to say that they ALL look jolly pretty!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAK Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Send them to someone to host Makjager! I must have that panther mod! Think yu could do a Tiger VIE in the same kinda garb? Please!, Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted May 30, 2001 Author Share Posted May 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kmead: Maximus: I prefer the first one you displayed as it appears more gray than green, the second is definitely a green tank in US color range.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It's not US drab, it's Russian Green baby! And look, if you squint real hard, you can pretend that it's a T-34. :eek: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The one thing I find very disturbing is the nearly black weld line on the side plate to upper glacis intersection and the strong nearly black line at the shadow where the front glacis meets and sticks up above the hull top in front of the hull hatches. The shadow under the shurtzen rail and gun cleaning tube is also too dark. On the dinkelgelb version the shadow areas are also verging on too dark but the welds are more a shade change than a dark line and have some detail of the weld bead in evidence.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> kmead, take that up with Fernando. All I have done is repainted them. Those "shadows" are what was in Fernando's original textures as you can see from the comparison shot(s). <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I do like the gray version, it would be a nice variation to have.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yep, me too. It's just green enough not to look too gray. ----------------------- PS-MakJager, would you like my Greenish Gray version to do a camo version on? [ 05-29-2001: Message edited by: Maximus ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 JAK , i would love to do a mod on the Tiger VI E , except that i am really pushed for time at the moment , the reason i was able to put the Panther togther so quickly is that Fernando did all the hard work. But its on my list to do when i get time As for your kind offer Maximus Here i hope is another shot of the Panther in brighter conditions. Regards Måkjager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 This would be my take on a late war PantherG with chin painted in a green base with brown and tan stripes. Just a very rough WIP , if only i did not have to work for a living Regards Måkjager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abteilung Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Måkjager: This would be my take on a late war PantherG with chin painted in a green base with brown and tan stripes. Just a very rough WIP , if only i did not have to work for a living Regards Måkjager<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Looks very similar to patterns used by the 5th SS Panzer Div. "Wiking". They preferred the hard egded bi and tri-color schemes starting in '43. Don't know how late in the war this practice continued, though. Nice work overall. Some weathering would make it exceptional. [ 05-30-2001: Message edited by: Abteilung ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAK Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Makjager, that panther next to the house without the striped markings is it! That is the panther of my dreams! Please don't alter anything on that beautiful piece of german steel(only suggestion is to put alittle mud on the wheels and bottom edges of the sides) Much thanx, Jake :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 JAK.....are you saying that you would like a Panther with just the base colour green ??? If so , no problem But it will take me a bit of time before i get around to it Can you hold on ??? The hard edge stripe pattern i did this morning between snoozes...havent really worked on it much , no weathering blah blah .... When i get back to it i will fix up the base colour mod and see about getting it hosted somewhere Regards Måkjager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAK Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Hi Makjager, I believe that there was a misunderstanding(my fault,sorry You posted 3 pics of your panthers on this thread, the panther I'm refering to is the middle pic ...ie without the strippes. Sorry about that, Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Makjager has done it. I've seen a film clip of a Panther with a similar pattern fighting in the Bulge (hull down on the slope of a ditch, gun at almost max depresion inches above the road... BOOM! So cool!) Inspires me to go home and take a crack at Fernando's Panthers myself. One tiny suggestion. Try muting the color on the green Panther 50% or more. That'll bring it back from a pea green to muted forest green. A touch more blue might help too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted May 31, 2001 Author Share Posted May 31, 2001 I'm telling you guys, my original repaint (first screenshot with labels) is just about right on for the subdued look. Really I made a mistake by calling it gray. It is really more green than gray. Look at it in-game in a scenario and you can tell it's more green than gray. MakJager is going to do a camo version of it along the lines of Kitty's KT pallete. Red-brown with Dark Yellow. It should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted May 31, 2001 Share Posted May 31, 2001 Hi MikeyD , i have a photo of 4 Panther G ( lates) lined up on a treelined road somewhere near Küstrin March 1945 with that cammo scheme ( or similar ). Thats where i got the idea Regards Måkjager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 Nearly there. Regards Måkjager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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