FERNANDO PANTHER SPIN-OFF

[Maximus]

Well, after some correspondence with Fernando, we have come to the conclusion that some Panther G-lates could be painted a Panzergrey. He said, all Panther Gs were painted Sand Brown, but some G-Lates did leave the factories in panzergrey.

I've sent the files to Fernando and we'll see what he thinks. He didn't like my original attempt. But after some tweaking based on his suggestions I came up with this color. What do you think?

[ 05-28-2001: Message edited by: Maximus ]

[Panzer Leader]

Yep, its gray all right.

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader:

Yep, its gray all right.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well actually it's an olive drab green painted over white. Using the "Hue & Saturation Only" filter, of course.

[Shatter]

I like it!

Let me know when the mod is done.

I sure would like to have it.

Keep up the hard work guys, I sure do appreciate it.

[Pvt. Ryan]

Can I get one with one of those paint jobs that changes color when viewed from different angles?

I can't wait for the camo versions. I am using Fernando'd last batch of Panther mods, but I think the new ones are going to be a significant improvement.

[Panzer Leader]

Seriously, though, is that panzergray? I always thought it was much more "steel gray" looking, like car primer for example, and less like the color of a sherman.

[Pine59]

Well, while I don't have a fraction of the artistic talent of Fernando or Maximus, I have spent 26 years researching german armor colors and have to disagree with the idea of Panther G late models in panzer gray. There is however, good evidence for small numbers of late war tanks leaving the factory in solid dark green. So I would rather the color stay slanted toward green rather than early war dark gray.

[Pvt. Ryan]

PL, do you mean like the color of the bases in the picture? Maximus admits that it is an olive drab. It does have a greenish tint.

[Panzer Leader]

I am by no means an expert. Sorry if I sounded like one, but the few color pictures I have seen have had VERY gray vehicles in them, yeah just like the bases. Almost a battleship gray.

I think I have seen some tigers that never got painted and were indeed a dark, almost loden green.

[Maximus]

Well here's what I did and what Fernando told me.

My first attempt was too bright. I had only used the green color.

Fernando told me to make a grey version and darken it and then add blue to it.

Well, making the grey version was easy. I just selected WHITE and the "Hue and Saturation Only" filter. Painted it. This basically grey-scales the model. This is how I do the winter mods as well. But this time, I clicked down on the BRIGHTNESS instead of up, which darkened it. Then I went back over this darkened grey version with the same GREEN color I used previously and got the result you see above.

If you squint real hard, it looks blue.

[ 05-28-2001: Message edited by: Maximus ]

[Pine59]

Yes, its an "F" model which never saw service but conveys the color idea.

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by highlife:

Well, while I don't have a fraction of the artistic talent of Fernando or Maximus, I have spent 26 years researching german armor colors and have to disagree with the idea of Panther G late models in panzer gray. There is however, good evidence for small numbers of late war tanks leaving the factory in solid dark green. So I would rather the color stay slanted toward green rather than early war dark gray.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well you see, that's kinda what I thought too, but Fernando seemd to think-through his own research-that some G-Lates left the factory in a panzer gray, as by that time, the factories were using any color of paint they had. However you're right though. I kept telling him that there needs to be some differentiation between this set of Panthers, such as a green-ish base or something like that. But he kept persisting that all were painted sand brown.

Well hell, here's what he said in his email to me:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally emailed by Fernando:

From Feb 43 onwards all vehicles were supplied in the Dunkelgelb (dark

yellow) factory base coat. AFAIK in 1945, every paint on hand was used, old

stocks of panzergrau included, so every camo pattern was possible. However,

there weren't Panther Gs at the time. From August 44 onwards all Panthers

produced at the factories were G late, so if you want to have a Panther in

panzergrey then IMHO it should be a G late.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So actually this late war "panzergrau" is probably more accurate than early war panzergrey.

[Pine59]

Sounds good enough to me Maximus. I think all those movies with gray german vehicles and games like "Steel Panthers" and the "Panzer General" series have given me a neurosis about post mid '43 panzergray vehicles.

Plus, once CM2 comes out every one can drive around panzergray tanks to their heart's content.

There was a general order dated March 1945 that specified dark green as the factory base color but I doubt many tanks came out with such. I do think sometimes the red oxide primer of the "thats all they had" final days of the war is mistaken for panzergray in B&W photos.

But Fernando certainly knows his stuff so I just posted this for discussion.

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by highlife:

Yes, its an "F" model which never saw service but conveys the color idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I just looked at it in-game again, and it *is* more green than gray, so you should be happy.

In fact, I'd be happy to email it to you to take a look for yourself. It's only a ~550K file or so.

[Pvt. Ryan]

I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but in CM2 will there be two sets of skins for each vehicle that was around when the color transition from grey to yellow took place? Or will certain variants of a vehicle be restricted to one color or another?

[Runyan99]

There is no doubt that these mods are beautiful, BUT...

Does anyone else think that these Panthers are just a little TOO perfect? They look like they just got detailed at the car wash. Don't battle tanks have some dirt and some dents and scratches on them!?

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Runyan99:

There is no doubt that these mods are beautiful, BUT...

Does anyone else think that these Panthers are just a little TOO perfect? They look like they just got detailed at the car wash. Don't battle tanks have some dirt and some dents and scratches on them!?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well we can always let Tiger have'em and he can apply his special "weathering" technique after he screws around with the dpi.

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan:

I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but in CM2 will there be two sets of skins for each vehicle that was around when the color transition from grey to yellow took place? Or will certain variants of a vehicle be restricted to one color or another?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dunno, but I'd assume that the change took place around the time when PzIV F2's came out. Weren't all PzIII's panzergray? or were some of the later ones yellow?

[Pine59]

Maximus,

That would be great if you have the time. I think my MSN address will handle it:

wmloganmd@msn.com

Pvt Ryan, that is a good point you raised about CM2. I haven't searched the board for an answer but I would guess that vehicles like the Sdkfz 250/251 and the Pz III and IV have two sets of bmps like the winter bmps now.

[Pine59]

Yes the Pz IIIs in service when the color change took effect were repainted when supplies allowed. Some had green and brown camo added to the gray like the early Tiger Is initially but I would say by fall 1943 they had all been painted sand or yellow or whatever you prefer to call it. Same was true for Kubelwagens etc.

[Pzman]

Nice work for once Max

Its you old friend Rob

[ 05-28-2001: Message edited by: Panzerman ]

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzerman:

Nice work for once Max

Its you old friend Rob

[ 05-28-2001: Message edited by: Panzerman ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just repainted it Rob. It only took about 10 minutes.

[Olle Petersson]

That mod looks okay for a grey that's been around a while.

However, I'd like to see some mod for a grey just out of the factory before sun bleeching.

As I've understood it the German tank grey was pretty close to black to start with (hence the reports of a "black" PzKw IV in the battle of Mechili), it was driven there directly from the docks in Tripoli and hadn't received the usual ocre coating.

Cheers

Olle

[MikeyD]

According to the reigning Panther expert Tom Jentz, final production Panther Gs came off the assembly line painted a solid dark GREEN, not grey. The theory of grey Panthers started with faulty interpretation of B&W photos back in the 70's. Same with final production Tigers. Before switching to green, late Panthers and Tigers came off the line with green/tan hard-edge camou factory-applied directly over the red primer! I've done a Hetzer mod in this pattern and it's really striking.

[Pine59]

MikeyD, most of what I have read and heard agrees with what Jentz says. Of course, alot of what I read is Jentz . As I mentioned above, most late war produced tanks seem most likely to have come out in the red oxide with added green camo. Maybe you can show us your Hetzer sometime!

Thanks for the file Maximus.