Michael Dorosh Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Originally posted by Gremlin: It's from the opening line of the "Ballad of East and West" by Rudyard Kipling. Thanks for clearing that up. My only source was a dimly remembered passage from "Ripley's Believe It or Not". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted January 31, 2001 Author Share Posted January 31, 2001 Hey guys, my goal here is not to stir up any fires. I would just like to be able to see doctrines applied to the same terrain so that I can see where the true differences lie. It's not a test, a challenge, or a sucker move to get you to play each other. Judging by the additional comments here and Scout's other post on the forum, I question whether or not I should continue to push this. If you're willing, I'll try to get a map off to each of you tonight. The specs for the defense will roughly be: 1km wide by 1.5km deep, rural terrain, clear and dry day, November '44, moderate trees and hills, standard U.S. Rifle Battalion with full support complement, 1 platoon Tanks, 1 platoon TDs, associated arty, AP & AT minefields, wire, a couple of TRPs, no bunkers/pillboxes. Pretty much a prepared defensive position. The battalion should be plenty to cover this area, if it is too much I can increase the size of the map. Or if you have any changes you'd like to make, let me know soon. Or post if you just want to can the whole idea. Matt ------------------ WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! - THIS SIG FILE BELONGS TO A COMPLETE FOO. MR T WOULDN'T BE SO KIND AS TO WRINKLE AN EYEBROW AT THIS UNFORTUNATE BEING. PLEASE OFFER HIS PARENTS AND COHABITANTS ALL SYMPATHY POSSIBLE. MAY BE CONTAGIOUS. CONTAINS ARTIFICIAL SWEETNER, INTELLIGENCE AND WIT. STAND WELL CLEAR AND LIGHT WICK. BY ORDER PETERNZ Damn Croda. That is one funny sig!!! must suck to be you - Hiram Sedai Croda, you rock! - Meeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txema Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Croda has said at the begining of this thread: "Most, if not all of us have read both of your discussions and tutorials on attack and defense techniques. I think I speak for the majority when I say that they were excellently written, and incredibly insightful. There is little doubt that my game has improved from reading your approaches." I have been looking for these articles, but I have found only one about defense techniques from Pillar and one about attack techniques from Todd in Combat Mission HQ. Are there any more? Can you tell me how can I access them? BTW, the discussion about if conducting recon in CM and how is really interesting !!! Txema Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutPL Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 All of my stuff is at www.geocities.com/fpd131. Hope it helps out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Originally posted by ScoutPL: How old are you Henri? 12? Actually I'm quite a bit older than you... I'm sorry that my message offended you, and I guess I'm partially responsible for that for posting on the tips forum that Fionn agreed with Pillar in your current debate.I didn't expect you to claim that Fionn agreed with you, and now I am in the embarrasing situation of having to speak for Fionn who is banned from these forums. True, Fionn told me to quote him if I wanted, here is the email he sent yesterday in his usual outspoken style : Interestingly enough ScoutPL has already been onto me telling me how wrong my view is ( even though officers far superior to him in rank have no problem with my representation). It's no problem though. Feel free to quote me if you want. What I was trying to say in the message that you mention is that there is room here for discussion of differing points of view, especially since those differences exist among military experts within the US. I apologize if this went over as smug or insulting to military personnel for whom I have the highest respect. And if I am right in saying this, then there is no big problem in whether or not there is a difference of opinion between you and Fionn, or between you and Pillar, or between you and me I appreciate the articles that you write on how to fight, because I think that I am open-minded enough to appreciate instructions on how to fight, whether they agree with my preconceptions or not.Contrary to Fionn, I cannot call upon my win/loss record to support my position Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutPL Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Croda - Most infantry battalions in wooded terrain defend a sector around 4+ km wide and 6+ km deep, dependant on the number of AOA's. Way to big for a CM fight. That said 1km by 1.5 km might be a wee bit too small. Try at least a 1.5 - 2 km wide and 3+ deep. Draw your map as terrain really exists. Open areas and wooded areas come in really large clumps, not hundreds of little small ones. Just relying on the AI map maker wont do it. Also make sure its terrain that an infanry battalion would defend. Restrictive mobility, short sighting distances, etc. When your done send me the file and I'll post my version to my website. The you guys can take it wherever you wanta go with it from there. Henri, I appreciate your candor. I am exchanging emails with Fionn now and I think basically he is right. I havent "been onto him," I just have a different perspective on the issue. Our armored forces do have a shortage of dismounted recon assets at the battalion/brigade level. Since I never served in an armored unit I haven't ran into that problem, so my take is going to be alot different. As an infantryman, dismounts were something I never had a shortage of. I'm sure he's found plenty of officers from the mechanized side of our service who will support that view. Whether broad front recon is the answer is another can of worms that I've taken off my menu for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutPL Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 From my discussion with Fionn- ScoutPL: Probably the biggest discrepancy here is I'm an infantryman, so I always had all the dismounted recon assets I needed. Would be interesting to know how many of your officer friends were infantry and would include themselves in that assessment of not having enough assets. Fionn: Well, many are from either the Cavalry branch ( which is traditionally low on dismounts ( I don't think I need to tell you how utterly pitiable the M3 is for dismounted recon. An entire platoon can only put 8 dismounts out. Hell, that's not even enough for local security when stopped IMO. ) ) or MechInf. Light infantry units are, I am certain, operating under the screen of far greater dismounted elements allocated to reconnaissance missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Originally posted by ScoutPL: Fionn: Well, many are from either the Cavalry branch ( which is traditionally low on dismounts ( I don't think I need to tell you how utterly pitiable the M3 is for dismounted recon. An entire platoon can only put 8 dismounts out. Hell, that's not even enough for local security when stopped IMO. ) ) or MechInf. Light infantry units are, I am certain, operating under the screen of far greater dismounted elements allocated to reconnaissance missions. A M3 Scout platoon has 12 dedicated dismount troops. This can be augmented by stripping one from a M3, leaving a driver and gunner/TC, is it is needed. The HMMWV platoons are the ones seriously short on manpower IMO. A major problem for the scout/cav is that is lead by armor officers. IMO, the doctrine learned for armor is significantly different than that needed by scouts and cav. Cav ------------------ "Maneuverists have a bad case of what may be called, to borrow from a sister social science, "'Wehrmact penis envy.'"--D. Bolger Co-Chairman of the CM Jihad Brigade Founder of the CMers who like playing the Allies Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ksak Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Oh! Oh! CavScout is talking about using AFV crews in an infantry role. Wait. Never mind. Never happened. The High Priests have decreed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Originally posted by Ksak: Oh! Oh! CavScout is talking about using AFV crews in an infantry role. Wait. Never mind. Never happened. The High Priests have decreed it. Hate to break it for you but a dismounted scout is the same as a M3 scout crew member. There is no differece. Scouts are 19 series NOT 11 series and are NOT infantry. Scouts for an infantry unit are 19Ds. Scout AFV crew members are not tankers. They were trained as dismounts before they became crew members. They are not divided like a M2, who has crew and the infantry they carry. Cav ------------------ "Maneuverists have a bad case of what may be called, to borrow from a sister social science, "'Wehrmact penis envy.'"--D. Bolger Co-Chairman of the CM Jihad Brigade Founder of the CMers who like playing the Allies Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ksak Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Sorry CavScout. Not looking to open that can of worms again. Just trying to make a mini-point that not all "crews" were created equal. All my crew members, upon losing an AFV or crewed weapon, are only permitted to remain in place and cartoon or munch on Ks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Originally posted by Ksak: Sorry CavScout. Not looking to open that can of worms again. Just trying to make a mini-point that not all "crews" were created equal. All my crew members, upon losing an AFV or crewed weapon, are only permitted to remain in place and cartoon or munch on Ks. Likely, those crews were not multi-purpose like modern day scouts. A tank crew then, and now, aren't going to jump out to become infantry-like. Todays scouts are both trained for that and, more importantly, equiped to be dismounted. A M3 crew will have M16s (TC may be pistol only), a 203, a M60 and loads of ammo, mines, claymnores, grenades and more. A M1 tank crew will bail out with their sidearms and ONE M16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ksak Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 I'd like to have the franchise for selling non TO&E weapons to M1 tank crews. I could buy Crays for everybody on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts