Sig Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 Thanks to the fantastic work by BTS and Co and the great feedback from this forum, most critical issues have been addressed, so I suppose it's time to go into less important details (some would say: time to nit-pick ). I would like to see some more accurate graphics AND sounds for explosions. I will focus on the hand grenade: I have thrown hand grenades equivalent to the german ones (Handgranate 43) and the detonation (sound and light) is very different from what is modelled. Graphic: TNT does not detonate in a "hollywoodian" fireball. There is a very small reddish flash and a big billowing cloud of soot. When you run through it just after detonation, no need for any face camouflage: you look as if you just cleaned your chimney . Sound: When TNT detonates, it does not go "BOOM" (a soft explosion, if I may say), but the sound is very "hard": KPOW! It's more frightening in fact because it really gives you a feeling of the incredible violence of the detonation. Just some data: the HG43 grenade I used (was in the swiss army) was a copy of the german one. Total weight is 600g with around 350g(?) TNT or equivalent. When compared to the 165g explosive in the early german Stielhandgranate 24, sound and light effects are certainly increased. BTW live 81mm mortar round explosions also have the same "look": no hollywoodian fireball and a "harder" detonation. I suppose CM2 would really benefit from an extended sound and graphic database, especially for explosions. The Great Patriotic War without different sound and light effects for those huge soviet artillery barrages...come on . Sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 I really like this idea! I know NOTHING about actual explosives in the field, but I'd love to see a new graphic mod, and especially a new sound mod that represented them more accurately. I know the "hard" explosion sound you are describing, and it would be great to add it to CM. [This message has been edited by Mr. Clark (edited 03-01-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darstand Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 Ofcoure the worst "hollywood" explosion is the building. Large heavy building when they go, look like small nuke hit them. In real life when destroyed most buildings just collapse inward. I have to admit I really like that big "BOOM". I still makes me twitch when it happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 I sure like big explosions! I have thrown US Hand grenades (haven't most of us here?) and I agree that it is the sound not the rather bland explosions that conveys their power, but I re-iterate: I LIKE the big explosions. I wish all my panzers would go up like that when they get hit, at least then I would get a little use out of them ------------------ And King Xerxes looked to King Leonidas and spoke. "Our Archers will rain arrows down upon you to blot out the sun." And King Leonidas replied: "Then we will fight in the shade." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaffod Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 I must say I agree w/ you on the small explosion sounds.. Ive tried a variety of different sounds from different mods and the best one i have is more of a 'POP' than a boom.. the one from the first maddog mod pack sounds too glass-shattering (just about every other effect in the pack is top notch though). Same w/ smoke rounds hitting ground.. more of a "THUD" should sound indstead of a BANG CRACKLE! (I feel like im in an old batman episode - BOFF!!!! BLOING!!!! BLAMMOE!) Sound FX put aside I feel the BEST ENHANCEMENT that could be made for CM2 is one thing!! (aside from individual soldiers being modeled of course) muzzle flashes!!!!! Think about how much more dramatic that would be in the playbacks! Im sure its been discussed before, but Im interested if any of ya'll have heard whether or not they will attempt this in CM2. Doesn seem like it would be too difficult to do at all! Whutchya all think?? Zaff' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badinfo Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 I have a couple pics lying round here from the grenade range, will try to get em scanned and post them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lord General MB Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 Sir, I agree! Why isn't there more dust in the explosion? Mabye some changes could be made if all the explosions weren't shared.... EX: An M4 gets hit (standard explosion). ground gets hit (dirt mostly mixed with some fire).... ect.... ------------------ Salute! Lord General Mr. Bill Supreme Commander 1st Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Fred Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 I'd like to see the mortar firing .wav changed. The mortar shell detonation sounds are fine, but the firing sound is way off base. I don't know where people got the impression that mortars make this metallic farting noise when they're fired. Most of my time in the Army was spent in 4.2" (107mm) mortar platoons. The four-duce is really loud. BOOM!!! If you're not wearing plugs when it's fired, your hearing is not long for this world. It will break your ear drums. It will make your ears bleed. Even an 81mm is pretty loud. I don't have any personal experiance with the smaller tubes (i.e. 2" and 60mm), but I'll bet those are significantly louder than a rifle. I'll have to take a look, er... listen to the .wav files and see if I can't find something more realistic. I also enjoy the exploding building and it would probably really do that if you hit it with a Sturmtiger round or a 2000 LB laser guided bomb, but maybe that should be toned down a bit in the interest of realism. I would also agree that the HE arty explosion could be different. Kind of a grey-brown-black ball of soot. I've played around a bit with AFV modding with some nice results, but modding these explosions is clearly outta my graphics league. This game is really good as is, but tweaking a few of these things would make it even better. ------------------ Later, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 Right now, we have 1 set of explosion graphics for everything. I'd like to see 2 sets in the future, one for "dry" and one for "wet" explosions. By "dry", I mean explosions on the ground, in the air, or for collapsing buildings. The amount of orange should be minimal if not totally gone and replaced by a very small amount of red. It should almost all be a cloud of dirt and smoke. There should also be a winterized version that's got a lot of snow in it. Also a night version that's mostly invisible due to darkness but has a small, brief, red flash in the center, but bigger than the daylight amount of red. "Wet" explosions, OTOH, would be for catastrophic vehicle explosions. These should mostly be bright pink light verging on white for the propellant fire, but this lasts only the first few animation frames. Then it all turns to black smoke in a mushroom cloud, followed by orange flames and black smoke on the wrecked vehicle. As for sound, undamped explosions like airburst shells, satchel charges, most mortar shells, and grenades should be very short in duration but extremely loud and sharp-edged. BANG! or POW! things. They really seem like ice picks jabbing into your ears. Most shell explosions should have a faint, fading swishing noise seguing after the burst noise for the fragments tearing through the air, although this should only be audible near the explosions. Damped explosions like arty shells that bury themselves in the ground a bit have a duller, longer sound. ------------------ -Bullethead In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pud Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 Pud - Climbs into concrete bunk, puts on kevlar armour, crawls under table. to - Sgt Fred As a suggestion, if like the sound of mortars in CC3 et al, could always grab a wav file from there and use that. I intend to do this one of these days, assuming it can be done. Pud - checks to see if barrage has stopped, emerges from bunker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badinfo Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 Does anyone have a list of the explosion bmp's? I will try my hand at modding them, just want to be sure I find them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted March 2, 2001 Author Share Posted March 2, 2001 Originally posted by Bullethead: Right now, we have 1 set of explosion graphics for everything. I'd like to see 2 sets in the future, one for "dry" and one for "wet" explosions. I am more demanding (this is the problem with good products: you want more, mooore, mooooore...pant, pant, pant...): I would like to see different explosion graphics for the main weapon categories (roughly divided: thrown (grenade, satchel), artillery (VT,"normal"), "gun-fired" (HE, hollow charge, AP)) AND the accompanying sounds. And BTW I like the idea of muzzle flash. Don't know how difficult it would be to implement though. The sound environment is a HUGE part of the fun I have playing CMBO. It creates this feeling of immersion, which is so exciting. IMHO this is a field almost as important than the visual aspect. Hehe, it's probably time to have some "grog attack" on the topic of sound modelling! I'm serious here: if we insist on modelling perfectly, say the zimmerit pattern on a Tiger, we should also have the same attitude toward sound and "light effect". Logical, no? Sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 A challenge to all mod makers! This thread is an excellent idea. Top mod makers, please listen and come up with bullethead's or another set of explosins for AFV. Current ones are fine, but some variation is nice. I DO like the big BOOM of the 2 storey buildings collapsing. Brilliant. But bulletheads idea is exciting. Take up the challenge Tiger et al! Regards, Charl Theron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted March 2, 2001 Author Share Posted March 2, 2001 Originally posted by WineCape: A challenge to all mod makers! (snip) But bulletheads idea is exciting. Yes. Just re-read his post. Lots of good ideas. And his comment about the fading swishing noise: right on the spot! Sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 One thing I'd like to see added to catastrophic tank hits is the cloud of sparks that appears when the round penetrates the armor. Also when the ammo brews up the burning propellent shoots sparks straight up into the air. I have witnessed both of these things watching tanks brew up in Iraq. ------------------ Nicht Schiessen!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 Man! This is way beyond my talents, but I sure hope someone here can make these sound MOD's! The more posts I read in this thread, the more hyped I get! I'm not sure how much farther someone could manipulate the graphics, as there is only so much there to work with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanco Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 ...and I too would like to see 2 sets of explosion graphics. One, which integrates some of the fantastic ideas presented here to increase realism. And two, a set that causes absolutely every armored vehicule that dies to go up in a catastrophic explosion. Yes. (edit) Sig said: I'm serious here: if we insist on modelling perfectly, say the zimmerit pattern on a Tiger, we should also have the same attitude toward sound and "light effect". Logical, no? -------------------------------- This is one of the most right on things I've ever read on this forum. ------------------ DeanCo-- CM interface mods: http://mapage.cybercable.fr/deanco/ so many games...so little time [This message has been edited by deanco (edited 03-02-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sitzkrieg Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 I would have to agree with everything said in this thread and cast my vote for a more realistic explosion mod. Just the other day, I switched back to the original explosion graphics because I noticed that artillery explosions had the super-firey "A-Team" quality to it I would love some more realistic explosion sound mods as well. In the meantime, I would suggest Scipiobase as a good place for some sound file replacements. I used a few of his to replace some of the "tickling" explosions and the ones with boards falling from the sky. They sounded fine when fighting in a town or village but seem really strange in the middle of a forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 Splinty said: One thing I'd like to see added to catastrophic tank hits is the cloud of sparks that appears when the round penetrates the armor. Yeah, that would be way cool. Also when the ammo brews up the burning propellent shoots sparks straight up into the air. I have witnessed both of these things watching tanks brew up in Iraq. Ten years after. Huzzah! 10th Marines, 2nd Marine Division here. Anyway, yeah, it usually goes straight up through the hatches. I've seen the fried husks of TCs still standing in their turrets after such events. Sometimes though, the propellant fire also generates enough pressure inside the tank to levitate the turret a few inches, allowing the pink fire to balloon out sideways a few feet before it goes up. Then the turret drops back down, often slightly askew. CM already has this skewed turret thing on knocked-out tanks, so having matching death graphics would fit right in . In both cases, though, the intense pink propellant fire leaps up almost instantly to 2-4 times the height of the tank, then it suddenly turns into thin, mushrooming black smoke, followed by the thicker black smoke in a straight plume from the burning wreck. This latter stage is well-done in CM as it stands, it's just the propellant fireball and mushroom cloud that are missing. Oh, and the propellant fire makes a sort of WOOF! sound instead of an explosion's boom. ------------------ -Bullethead In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lord General MB Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 Sir, I agree, Again, But keep it simple: 2 Sets. 1 for dirt and less explosion (i.e for buildings, hitting the ground, trees...ect) Another for hitting vehichles (the current explosoin set fits that role). Why doesn't tiger take his hand at trying some toned down explosions. One that fits the 2 together (i.e. less explosion, more dirt, and so on...) ------------------ Salute! Lord General Mr. Bill Supreme Commander 1st Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 . [ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Scipio ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sitzkrieg Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 Great new mortar sound Scipio. I look forward to more sound mods from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibucephalus Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 Artillery at close range( less than 1000m) is like a CRACK, at longer ranges its more of a KRUMP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Fred Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 Originally posted by Scipio: At your service. New mortar sound is available now. I was in a mortar platoon, too, and yes, the old one wasn't so good. I guess the new one fits better. ------------- Keine Gefangenen! Visit my Combat Mission Sound Mods site! Scipiobase Join the Blitzkrieg Wargaming Club [This message has been edited by Scipio (edited 03-02-2001).] Thanks Scipio. I just installed and tested your new mortar sound mod and it's a huge improvement. Now I don't have to cringe when I hear the pop-gun sissy mortar sound anymore. Thanks. It looks like you site has lots of new .wav files that I'll have to check out. Keep up the good work. ------------------ Later, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 Originally posted by Scipio: At your service. New mortar sound is available now. I was in a mortar platoon, too, and yes, the old one wasn't so good. I guess the new one fits better. Great work Scipio! Could the Aces of Mods (Tiger, Bergman et al.) heed our call for a second set of tank explosions? Keep this post bumped gentleman! We need those masters of modding to take this challenge up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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