Tanks that knock each other out

[patboivin]

One of my opponents mentioned that his Marder II and my Sherman 105 knocked each other out during a turn.

I noticed while playing QBs that tanks sometimes do that.

Is this realistic? To see units knock their opponent on the first shot seems like a bit of a stretch to me -- but to have BOTH do it simultaneously?

I have never been in a WW2 tank, so I don't know how often this happened, if it did.

Just curious if this is a bug or if it is realistic, it looks suspcicious to me.

[BsChoy]

I'm not a tanker but to me it dosen't seem too far fecthed for two static(stationary)vehicles who fire simultaneously to be able to hit each other...yes rare but not impossible in my mind

[Capt. Vance Astrovich]

I am no tanker either, but this has happened to me once or twice. And watching it happen, it seemed very plausible. They fired almost simultaneously and lo-and-behold, bith shots found their target's resulting in nearly simultaneous destruction of two perfectly good Panzers.

[aka_tom_w]

in this game it happens ALL the time, I would say this happens at least once in every two or three games I play.

many many, tanks fire at each other simultaneously, if both hit and penetrate and knock each other out that does not really surprise me all that much.

-tom w

[Stalins Organ]

I'd add that a KO might not be instantaneous - I'm no tanker, but I can imagine a gunner busy aiming and firing a second or 2 after his own vehicle as been technically KO'd - ie he's busy with his job and does it before the incoming damage is assessed and the bail out order given.

[Michael Emrys]

In one playing of the Tutorial one of my Shermans fired at almost the same instant as the Mk. IV it was shooting at...and died as its shell was on the way. But the Kraut died too.

It would have been nice if my guy had fired a couple seconds sooner, then the Kraut wouldn't have gotten his shot off.

I suspect that the reason there are a lot of simultaneous mutual kills being observed is the way that firing impulses are spaced in CM. That is, it seems to me that weapons that have the same rate of fire always fire at exactly the same point during the turn. This is of course arbitrary and unrealistic, though I don't think that the game suffers badly for it. Most of the time it is unnoticeable and irrelevant to the outcome. But it would be nice if a little random irregularity could be programmed into the spacing of each unit's firing impulses. In practice this would mean that one unit could get the drop on another.

Michael

[BloodyBucket]

Nearly every Civil War museum I have been to features a musket that has a round in the barrel that met the round coming out.

I have no stats to back it up, but it seems that it is reasonable that two tanks could kill each other. I think it happens a lot in CM due to the in-game timing mentioned above.

[Warmaker]

Sorry gentlemen, but war does things that seems to make no sense. Do a search in the forum for "Murphy's Laws of Combat" and you'll see how badly or how weird things can get in battle.

[Guest Babra]

Part of the reason it seems to happen more than we think it should may have to do with game mechanics. Since there are only five discreet speeds with which crews move and react (based on their experience level), and since most of those we encounter are "regular", opposing tanks tend to get their shot away at roughly the same time, provided one of the vehicles involved isn't hampered by a poor facing and/or slow turret.

In reality of course, one hundred tank crews will load and fire at one hundred different speeds, which would probably make the occurrence less frequent in the real world than it appears in the game, though not unheard of.

I'm not suggesting a fix, though it might be possible to rate crew experience from 1 to 100 rather than 1 to 5 (Conscript to Elite). I suppose it depends on whether the perceived gains are worth the coding effort.

[tss]

BloodyBucket wrote:

Nearly every Civil War museum I have been to features a musket that has a round in the barrel that met the round coming out.

That happened also with 7.62mm rifles at Suomussalmi, 1939. The rifle was subsequently lost, though, so it is possible that it was only an urban legend.

Also, at Ihantala one Finnish 152mm artillery round hit an incoming Soviet (probably 122mm) round midair.

- Tommi

[wadepm]

There is a little Civil War display in Chattanooga that has two bullets that hit each other in flight and are fused together. If it's fake it sure looked convincing!

[nedlam]

Two tanks knocking each other out isn't as bad as when my tank, "covering" the advance of another one of my tanks knocks it out while trying to fire over it.

[aka_tom_w]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nedlam:

Two tanks knocking each other out isn't as bad as when my tank, "covering" the advance of another one of my tanks knocks it out while trying to fire over it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps you are confusing some other cause

friendly tanks in CMBO can and do fire right through each other

if you try you cannot even target one or your own tanks

perhaps some other unseen unit KO'd that tank?

-tom w

[Randl]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babra:

....Since there are only five discreet speeds with which crews move and react (based on their experience level), and since most of those we encounter are "regular", opposing tanks tend to get their shot away at roughly the same time, provided one of the vehicles involved isn't hampered by a poor facing and/or slow turret.

.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With that in mind, when a tank is Hunting for a shot, two tanks might easily see one another at the same time. If the range is long, there is some projectile flight time involved that can help even out a disparity in firing times and helping the case towards a little mutual destruction. Makes me wonder how many times in the old west that a High Noon gunfight resulted in mutual elimination also.

[nedlam]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

Perhaps you are confusing some other cause

friendly tanks in CMBO can and do fire right through each other

if you try you cannot even target one or your own tanks

perhaps some other unseen unit KO'd that tank?

-tom w<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmm, I'll have to go back and take a look at that, or do an experiment. I thought for sure one of my tanks hit my other tank. If what you say is right, it makes me feel better. Talk about a bone head move on my part. hehehe, like shooting myself in the foot