What Are The Most Overrated/Underrated Units In This Game?

[Col Deadmarsh]

I'd love to hear what people's opinions are and maybe we can even get into some arguments over a couple. I'm gonna start this off:

Most Overrated: Allied Flamethrower

Only 6 shots? Why only 6 when the Germans get 9 for the same price? While we're on the subject, I think ALL Flamethrower teams are overrated. For double the price, as the Germans I can buy the Flame Halftrack which has about 5 times as much ammo. These Flamethrower units should in my opinion cost about 25 pts and each team should have 9 pulls on the trigger. BTS should have fixed this in a patch. As it is now, not many people use them which takes away an important level of strategy to the game.

Most Underrated: I don't see a clear cut favorite yet in my games but for now I'll go with the Allied HMG. For 22 pts, you get 125 rounds of ammo which should let you open fire for almost the entire game. A damn fine investment of your hard-earned CM cash.

[StellarRat]

I like flamethrowers. They are incredibly effective if you know how to use them. Well worth the price.

[killa in manilla]

I agree that the flamethrowers are overrated, but they aren't the most. They may be tought to use, and in many situations, they suck, but when used correctly hay can really put a dent in your opponent that it well worth the price.

[YECoyote]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh:

[QB]I'd love to hear what people's opinions are and maybe we can even get into some arguments over a couple. I'm gonna start this off:

Most Overrated: Allied Flamethrower

Only 6 shots? Why only 6 when the Germans get 9 for the same price? While we're on the subject, I think ALL Flamethrower teams are overrated. For double the price, as the Germans I can buy the Flame Halftrack which has about 5 times as much ammo. These Flamethrower units should in my opinion cost about 25 pts and each team should have 9 pulls on the trigger. BTS should have fixed this in a patch. As it is now, not many people use them which takes away an important level of strategy to the game.

QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't hide a halftrack in the middle of Wooded area to ambush unsuspecting grunts, then have the HMG cut down the retreating grunts. You also can't set up an ambush against tanks in half-tracks. they'll get KO'ed before they even get a shot off. I'd rather have 2 flamethrower teams than 1 HT.

most underrated is the Wirblewind. Incredible amount of ammo. good infantry and AT/INF gun killer.

Just my 2 cents.

[Kingfish]

Commonwealth 3" mortar. Twice the ammo of the American and German 81s.

[Chuckd]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StellarRat:

I like flamethrowers. They are incredibly effective if you know how to use them. Well worth the price.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, exactly how does one go about using Flamethrowers correctly? Every single time I use them they just get smoked. Are they strictly a defensive ambush weapon or what? Any tips, grogs?

[Marlow]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuckd:

So, exactly how does one go about using Flamethrowers correctly? Every single time I use them they just get smoked. Are they strictly a defensive ambush weapon or what? Any tips, grogs?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In a city fight they can be great just light up an enemy occupied building, and once it catches fire, watch his men run into the street. Got an entire platoon this way one time. The Flamethrower itself didn't kill anyone, it was the rifles of the engineer platoon that did the actual damage.

[Chuckd]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marlow:

In a city fight they can be great just light up an enemy occupied building, and once it catches fire, watch his men run into the street. Got an entire platoon this way one time. The Flamethrower itself didn't kill anyone, it was the rifles of the engineer platoon that did the actual damage.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the tip! Must be my approach tactics. I will work on these.

Chuckd

[StellarRat]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuckd:

So, exactly how does one go about using Flamethrowers correctly? Every single time I use them they just get smoked. Are they strictly a defensive ambush weapon or what? Any tips, grogs?

Chuckd<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like to hide them in stone buildings. When the enemy prepares to move in whoosh! They are also effective on the offense, but you need to have smoke screens and suppressive fire to allow them to close. Caught in the open with no help they're toast.

[Guy w/gun]

Most Underrated: Hmm...Good Question...

Most overrated: IMHO, The Panther series of tanks

*ducks for cover*

[Gen-x87H]

Overrated: Tiger I Tank. No sloped Armor makes this thing an easy target for the armor anemic Allies. For all the hype the big cat seems to not live upto it. Its little cat brother is more effective and deadly.

Underrated: The green wave. People seem reluctant to just buy alot of green troops and run the gauntlet. I have been on the receiving end of a couple of these deadly things. Eventhough alot of them ran like little girls when I open up there were just too many of them for me to stop!

Gen

[Ignatious J. Fathead]

Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh:

I'd love to hear what people's opinions are and maybe we can even get into some arguments over a couple. I'm gonna start this off:

Most Overrated: Any heavy tank. Even the strongest tank can be killed in seconds with a "lucky" shot; slow; bogs down just when you need it the most.

Most Underrated: The German 75mm recoiless rifle. Easily hidden, and equally effective against armor, infantry and buildings.

IJF

[ 08-27-2001: Message edited by: Ignatious J. Fathead ]

[FFE]

Overrated: Archer. 99 points worth of pure junk. 20mm death, almost for certain.

Underrated: 40mm Bofors. "Death from where???" Great weapon. It kills all Axis light AFVs, chews through buildings and infantry. Added benefit: hard to spot over 400 meters.

[ 08-27-2001: Message edited by: FFE ]

[lcm1947]

Well, I've thought this from day one when I first had a heck of a time killing a HQ unit and still can't understand why a regular rifle squad can't just shoot the crap out of these units. It may for some strange reason need to be so tough but - I don't think it's coded correctly. I mean 12 soldiers against 4 should be able to just roll over them but my troops don't and I've played - well dozens and dozens and well you get the picture.

[Brian]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuckd:

So, exactly how does one go about using Flamethrowers correctly? Every single time I use them they just get smoked. Are they strictly a defensive ambush weapon or what? Any tips, grogs?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The are primarily an offensive weapon. If you protect them, in the same way they were used in real life, move them under cover until the last moment. Use "bags o'smoke" (as a WO I knew used to say) and remember, they're short-ranged weapons. Sneak them up on their targets.

Interestingly, both the Germans and the Russians used statically emplaced flamethrowers. No mention of them in the game though.

[Brian]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FFE:

Overrated: Archer. 99 points worth of pure junk. 20mm death, almost for certain.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the Archer was a very successful and populat SPAT gun. It lasted in the British Army well into the 1950's and in several Arab ones into the 1960's.

Underrated: 40mm Bofors. "Death from where???" Great weapon. It kills all Axis light AFVs, chews through buildings and infantry. Added benefit: hard to spot over 400 meters.

[ 08-27-2001: Message edited by: FFE ][/QB]

[Col Deadmarsh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gen-x87H:

Overrated: Tiger I Tank. No sloped Armor makes this thing an easy target for the armor anemic Allies. For all the hype the big cat seems to not live upto it. Its little cat brother is more effective and deadly.

Gen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems so many people are frustrated with the lack of frontal armor on this thing since it looks so big and tough and was known for this. I think you gotta get down and dirty with this tank. You need to throw it into the fray--that is, the fray of enemy infantry--not tanks. This thing should be treated as a souped-up support weapon, not a tank destroyer.

And what a great support weapon it is! It has enough frontal armor to bounce off enemy zook and piat shots which the StugIIIG (everyone's favorite choice of cheap anti-infantry armor) doesn't have. It also has 2 mg's with plenty of ammo while one of the StugIIIG's mg's is a remote flexible with only 24 rounds of ammo--after that, you're down to 1 mg. The Tiger also has a turret which the StugIIIG doesn't have. The other main advantage to the Tiger is the 88 gun it houses. You're given a lot more HE too than the Stug.

Now do you mind paying 100 more clams for this thing knowing how to use it properly? When protected from the Allied tank destroyers, this thing can be deadly to enemy infantry and if needed, go toe to toe with 76's, Hellcat's, and M10's and stand a 50/50 chance of winning.

[Roksovkiy]

Most Overrated:

British 17lb using APDS and generally all US tungsten rounds, penetration. The game engine over-models the penetration and disregards the accuracy and shatter gap limitations that affected this type of ammo, as shown in Rexfords new book

Most Underrated:

Panthers armour. All given 85% armour quality.

overmodelled.

[109 Gustav]

Most overrated? the Jagdpanther. The armor isn't a whole lot better than the armor on an ordinary panther, and in most cases the 88 is overkill. Plus, you lose the turret, an MG, and IIRC some ammo. It may be useful for long range sniping, but in the majority of CM battles a Panther or JagdPz IV/70 is a better bargain.

Most underrated is definitely the 6lbr AT gun. It can take out any German tank with a flank shot, has an excellent ROF, and with a tungsten round it will sometimes go through a Panther's frontal armor. Plus, they're reasonably cheap. When playing Fionn's rule of short 75s, they are without a doubt the best AT asset in the game, because the Germans don't have any short 75 equipped tanks with enough frontal armor to stop them.

[ 08-28-2001: Message edited by: 109 Gustav ]

[Ellros]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Funny, I'd have said that nice straight line of tracer was more than adequate as a pointer, myself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never had a 20mm open fire on you for several turns eh? In many games I've come under 20mm and 40mm fire without seeing any tracer because no troops could spot the gun. All I would hear is the distinctive sound and often see the ricochets off armor. If I watched carefully, I can sometimes see the muzzle flashes (which I found out aren't always from the actual gun location, but instead from the sound contact spot).

[Cybeq]

Overrated: German 37mm flak halftrack. Supposedly this thing slices, dices, and makes julian fries. Eats light armor for breakfast, houses for lunch, takes a big infantry crap before a final dinner on pillboxes. Due to a widely publicized BUG (which has yet to be addressed by BTS) it is also supposedly nigh unto impossible to kill. Tanks will not use AP against it, only HE. Well guess what? It turns out that HE is a pretty effective anti-halftrack weapon. So is the U.S. .50 HMG. So are mortars. So are AT/INF guns. So are MMG's, LMG's and SMG's. So are flamethrowers. So are PIAT's and zooks, mines, gammon bombs, pillboxes, artillery, hand grenades, recoiless rifles, AA guns, and infantry squads. In fact, granny's garter made into a slingshot and firing nothing but old marbles has been to K.O. these things when the wind is right. Way overrated if you ask me. The fact that they are considered gamey is laughable.

Underrated: Crack/Elite sharpshooter. Get one of these bad mambo-jambo's, put him in a patch of trees with good LOS and hide him. Watch as the enemy tank commanders die brutal but precise deaths. With one of these guys on your team your AT work is half done. A buttoned tank can't see so good. A buttoned tank can be easily flanked, easily destroyed. He may not make the goal but he gets the assist every time.

[109 Gustav]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cybeq:

Underrated: Crack/Elite sharpshooter...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've found that in most cases a regular sharpshooter is enough, at least while on the defense. New or conservative players

won't unbutton their tanks after the first shot, giving you an obvious advantage. If your opponent does keep unbuttoning them, he's tempting fate, because sooner or later even a regular sharpshooter will make the kill.

[mg42 gunner]

The Most over rated gun in combat mission are all machine guns they cant hit a fat lady in a rocking chair at point blank range ! {Something that needs fixing}

[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: mg42 gunner ]

[Triumvir]

I agree about the buttoning; most experienced players like to have their TCs work Israeli-style (and often end up with similar casualty rates.)

As for the MGs, however you're using the MGs, mg42gunner, you're using them wrong.

I've had a HMG42 rip up an advancing platoon from 600m; the platoon simply wouldn't advance and would go to ground. Eventually, they broke and ran; and they were regular troops.

It helped that an AT gun killed any tank that tried to influence the battle; by itself, though, 1 HMG squad rendered an entire platoon ineffective.

The key is to have them open up at sustained fire ranges; 600-300m is the optimal range for the HMGs. A battery of Vickers (i.e. 4 MGs) can work a _shocking_ toll on advancing unsupported infantry.

[von Lucke]

Overrated: Any heavy tank: Too expensive, usually not enough ammo, bogs down, and when it gets whacked by an AT team, yr gonna be wishing you'd bought those 3 armored cars instead...

Underrated: The Wolverine. (Qualifier: This applies to the first few game months only). In case you haven't noticed, American TD's don't get tungsten rounds until August (Sept?), the British version of the M10 however comes well equiped with "t" rounds from the beginning. This can be a nasty suprise to any Panther or Tiger wielding chappy in June - July.